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11.25 am
Hywel Williams (Caernarfon) (PC): I congratulate the hon. Member for Aberavon (Dr. Francis) on his good fortune in securing his slot in the ballot and on introducing the Bill, which I am pleased to see. He is a historian by profession, so he will know, although perhaps other hon. Members might not, that he and I share the name of a great reforming king of Wales: Hywel Dda—Hywel the Good. In the early mediaeval period, he codified Welsh laws and brought forward elements such as more equal rights for women, which he did slightly earlier than we managed in this place. He also brought forward an interesting idea on criminal responsibility whereby not only criminals, but their families and extended families, were responsible. That form of community policing might have commended itself to the Home Secretary had he been in the Chamber. The hon. Member for Aberavon and I share the name, and he clearly follows in a glorious tradition—I congratulate him on that.
Being Welsh, I suffer, as does the hon. Gentleman, from the classic Welsh question when one is introduced to someone whom one has not met before: "Who are you?" and "Who are you, really?"—the second question that is always asked. I suffered, as I am sure he has, from my mother joining me when I was meeting somebody of some standing, such as a poet, a teacher, a preacher or a musician, and saying, "Tell him who you are—exactly." So, let me tell the House that the hon. Gentleman is not only the Member for Aberavon, but the son of Dai Francis, the inspiring and inspired leader of the National Union of Mineworkers in Wales. During the 1970s and 1980s, he showed many others how to appreciate the value of industrial trade unionism. He also had wider interests because he was committed to equal rights and human rights throughout the world. In that sense, the hon. Gentleman is truly tad y mab—the son of the father, or perhaps these days, to put it more correctly and prosaically, the child of the parents.
I am pleased to support the Bill as a social worker in the 1970s and a social policy and social work teacher. I am pleased that its aims and intentions are clear. Some time ago, I had the opportunity to write a bilingual training package on community care in Wales called "Gofal: Gofal yn y Gymuned"—"Gofal: Care in the Community". We had to wrestle with the complexities of the law on community care while preparing the package, and I shall illustrate that by mentioning a small example of the difficulties that we had. By the way, I am glad to see the prominence that the hon. Gentleman gives to the fact that the Bill will apply to England and Wales—its application in Wales will be welcome.
My small example is that of LACs and WOCs—some hon. Members will be familiar with them, but others will not. A LAC is a local authority circular and a WOC is a Welsh Office circular, or at least it was when we had a Welsh Office. The problem was that not all LACs were WOCs, and some WOCs were slightly different from the equivalent LACs. Working our way through that minefield was a nightmare. I hope that when the Bill is implemented, which I hope will happen very shortly, we will not face similar problems with LACs, WOCs or their modern equivalent.
The Bill is admirable for addressing the wide range of carers' experiences of life, taking into account social, educational, training and employment factors. It is high time that carers are not seen one dimensionally as just carers and nothing else. The hon. Gentleman said that his aim was to address the attitude of public bodies, local authorities and health authorities. I am full of admiration for his determination to do that. As a teacher, working with people and learning how to deal with other people in the "people business", as we used to call it, I worked with knowledge, skills and attitudes. Knowledge is dead easy to teach; skills are more difficult to teach; attitudes are almost impossible to teach. It is very difficult to change people's attitudes. I commend him for attempting to do that. If we get the attitude straight, a lot of the other stuff follows. That is a good thing.
What is the other stuff that is involved? It means giving people who have caring responsibilities greater opportunities in education, training and so on, and providing proper information. I began as a social worker in 1974, 30 years ago this year, I regret to say; it is a long time ago. I remember trying to persuade people of the virtue of the attendance allowance, which had just been introduced. A great deal of publicity surrounded it and a lot of information was available on it. I started working in the Rhymni valley, which had a large number of people with disabilities who could benefit from attendance allowance, as it was then, and the provisions of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970.
One example comes to mind of a lady whom I saw a number of times. She was a carer, looking after her daughter with Down's syndrome. I realised that Mrs. Parry did not get up from her chair during my time with her. She sat propped up in it during our interviews. Eventually, I asked her whether she had any difficulty. She said, "My hips have gone completely; they are shot. I can scarcely walk." I asked her how old she was. She said, "I was 66 last week." Hon. Members will know that that fell just outside the age limit to apply for attendance allowance for her daughter. That was in 1976 or 1977.
In terms of the provision of information, I was dismayed to find only three or four weeks ago that an older couple of my acquaintance did not know enough about the attendance allowance to claim it, although they had a right to receive it for several years. Those people are highly educated, well informed and well connected within the local community. There was no reason why they should not know about it, but they did not and had missed out on many thousands of pounds and the help that the attendance allowance would have given them. I cannot put enough emphasis on the need
for proper information to be provided. The benefit of information on all aspects of people's lives when they have caring responsibilities is important.As for the focus on health and well-being, I have a personal reason for supporting the Bill warmly. My late father and my mother have cared for my brother for 31 years following a serious road traffic accident. He still lives at home. My mother is in her early 80s and has been a carer all those years, since the early 1970s, but would never see herself as such. She had to be persuaded to identify herself as a carer. She wanted nothing to do with us after that, but she accepted that she was a carer. Her health now needs attention, but she still devotedly cares for Geraint, my brother. The focus on her health and well-being is important and will become increasingly so. I welcome that element of the Bill most warmly.
The hon. Gentleman said that he was open and happy to discuss aspects of the Bill should they cause any controversy. He is most courteous and I am sure that he would be happy to do that. However, I encourage him not to discuss them too much. Let us get the Bill through the House quickly and in its entirety, as far as that can be achieved, and implemented quickly, as other hon. Members said. It is an honour to support the Bill. I commend it to the House.
11.36 am
Jane Griffiths (Reading, East) (Lab): I add my voice to those hon. Members who have congratulated my hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon (Dr. Francis) on taking this opportunity to introduce this very important Bill, which I hope and trust will have the Government's support. I know that it has the support of hon. Members on both sides of the House.
In supporting the Bill, I want to highlight briefly some of the problems faced by older carers. All our constituencies have a large number of people who are members of the first generation of parents who have cared for their children with disabilities, who are now adults. Those parents are reaching retirement age and although they may not have health problems of their own, they anticipate that they will have them and are fearful for the future of their adult offspring when they are no longer around to take care of them.
A family in my constituency, John and Irene Flen and their daughter, Lisa, who has Down's syndrome, are in exactly that situation. The parents have retired, although Mrs. Flen was not able to work for most of her adult life because of her caring responsibilities. When Lisa was born, Mrs. Flen was told, as was common at that time some 40 years ago, "It's a Mongol. Put it away and forget about it. Have other children." Like many others of their generation, Mr. and Mrs. Flen did not do that. They were told that Lisa would live perhaps only a few years, but she is 40, she is fine and she is a good friend of mine. People like Mr. and Mrs. Flen—there are many of them and their numbers will not diminish as we all live to a greater age—have had their opportunities for work, education, personal development and even holidays curtailed drastically because of their need to care for their sons and daughters. That is why the Bill is so important.
Some hon. Members said that the Bill should not be necessary because what it is trying to achieve is common sense. The hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton
(Mrs. Browning) said that, and she was right, but unfortunately it is necessary. There are statutory duties on local authorities and public bodies of various kinds, but a change in attitude enshrined in law is what we need for a better future for carers and for those for whom they care.When local authorities perform their statutory duties, they comply with the law, but because of the way the law stands there is a tendency for them to talk about adults with learning disability as though they were all the same. Some adults with learning disability are able, can work and live more or less independent lives. A great many, however, cannot and will never be able to. That puts carers in a dilemma. Some will want to promote their offspring going to work and leading an independent life while others know that that will never be possible for their offspring. They feel that they are treated as just one mass of people whose needs are all the same—they are not. Equality of opportunity, if it is to mean anything, is the recognition that each person is an individual, has individual needs and is different from each other person—their starting point in the world is not the same as the person next to them. That is why the Bill is so important. I implore the Government to support it, and I hope and trust that they will do so.
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