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David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): I know that the hon. Gentleman takes a keen interest in the aviation industry. Will he comment on the fact that best estimates suggest that through not having to pay fuel tax and other taxes, the tax that the industry avoids paying aggregates to about £9 billion a year, which would pay for the whole of the United Kingdom's higher education budget? Is that not astonishing?
Norman Baker: Yes, a gigantic amount of tax is not paid by the airline industry. Why should the rest of us be deprived of what we wish to do—on health, education or anything else—because that sector is excluded? That is entirely unfair and the Government must address it. I accept that the situation is difficult because of the international agreements and so on, but we must go further and faster than we have.
People in this country want to help the environment—they have a hunger to do so in many ways. We know how people clamour for recycling facilities in their own patches. The most recent survey on public attitudes on the DEFRA website reveals that 91 per cent. of the population are either fairly or very concerned about environmental issues. Research by WWF says that 8 million people or more are likely to make decisions at the ballot box based on such issues, so they are politically, as well as morally, important, as I have tried to argue.
I do not want to say that the Government have achieved nothing because they have several achievements. They ratified Kyoto, produced a reasonably good energy White Paper and made welcome structural changes. However, they have not gone far enough. Jonathan Porritt, the Prime Minister's adviser, said:
- "Anybody looking at it dispassionately is going to have a hard job proving that Labour has put the environment at the heart of Government, which is what they claimed they would do."
- "Although the creation of DEFRA has brought environmental concerns to food and farming policy for perhaps the first time, it has also effectively sidelined the environment as a factor in many other crucial political areas, for example transport, trade, business and planning".
- "making unsatisfactory progress on environment. The Government has made progress on only two of seven environmental indicators, with progress on the rest being unsatisfactory".
1.29 pm
The Minister for the Environment (Mr. Elliot Morley): I beg to move, To leave out from "House" to the end of the Question, and to add instead thereof:
- "applauds the leadership and commitment on the environment shown by the Government domestically and globally; welcomes the UK's climate change programme which has already put the UK on track to overshoot its Kyoto target of a 12.5 per cent. cut in 1990 levels of greenhouse gas emissions by 2012; commends the introduction in the UK of the world's first economy-wide emissions trading scheme; further welcomes the long-term improvement in air quality and steps to improve local environmental quality generally; notes that river and bathing water quality is the highest on record; congratulates the Government on achieving a household recycling rate of 15 per cent. in 2002–03 and being on track for 17 per cent. for 2003–04; further congratulates the Government for playing a key role in the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES), increasing protection for a number of endangered flora and fauna; recognises that there is still much to do to promote sustainability at all levels; and calls upon the Government to continue to put environmental protection, locally, nationally and globally at the heart of its policies."
In principle, I am not against an annual debate on the environment. Why just one debate? The Government, DEFRA and I have all been strong on integrating environmental priorities right across Government strategies and policies. I would not want the environment to be the subject of an annual debate, then for it to be thought that we had "done" the
environment, and I am sure that that is not the hon. Gentleman's intention. Given the increased, scrutiny, Select Committees and improved facilities for Adjournment debates that the Government have put in place, there are many opportunities for the House to discuss, debate and scrutinise environmental issues—which also touch on the Treasury, trade and health, and the whole range of government functions.I must defend my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State because no one doubts her commitment to environmental issues or questions her international achievements in negotiations on the mid-term review of the common agricultural policy and with the Doha agreement, which for the first time put environmental and non-trade issues on the agenda. I do not pretend that that solved the problem because reaching agreement in a body such as the World Trade Organisation is difficult, but at least those issues are now on the agenda, when they were not in the past. There is not much evidence either of any attempt to get them on the agenda in the past. My right hon. Friend can take credit for that development.
I do not doubt either the commitment to the environment of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, which he has demonstrated on many occasions. In his speech to the American Congress, he raised the issue of climate change right to the heart of American government. We have repeatedly said that, as America is the greatest contributor to greenhouse gases, it must take climate control seriously. Even though the Americans have not signed up to Kyoto, many American states, institutions and academics do take climate control seriously and have tried to address it unilaterally within the US system.
The US Government are keen to take forward environmental technologies, which have a contribution to make. We do not believe that such technologies are the complete answer to climate change, but we are prepared to work with the Americans. We welcome the large sums of money that the US has committed to environmental technology research and to research and development generally. We have agreed to co-operate with the Americans in the G8 in taking forward environmental technology. The House should not be misled into thinking that there is no US engagement or involvement on climate change. However, we believe that the US ought to ratify Kyoto and ultimately should be part of a global agreement on controlling greenhouse gases.
Sue Doughty: We welcome the fact that the Government are working with the US to secure improvements, but I still have great difficulty identifying the strategic leadership. This is not an anti-American debate. We accept that a lot of good work is being done in the US, but there is a huge gap. Something is needed to tip the Americans into ratifying Kyoto. The US must be made to understand the potential for jobs and other opportunities if it provides leadership.
Mr. Morley: That is also an internal debate within the US. I heard a lecture by a prominent scientist who advises the Bush Administration in which he made it clear that there was no doubt about the impact of climate change and the need to address it. Many voices
have been raised in the debate in the US and I am sure that that will continue—as is the case with Russian ratification.Carbon trading and setting caps are not all negatives in respect of their impact on industry. They encourage energy efficiency, improve competitiveness and offer financial advantages—not least to Russia. We are trying to make the case to Russia that there are economic advantages to ratifying the Kyoto agreement.
Mr. Weir: I was in Russia at the end of last year and one view expressed was that climate change might benefit that country as it might increase agricultural production. That opinion is prevalent in high Government circles in Russia, which is most worrying.
Mr. Morley: That is worrying. I have heard the argument that where a country has a frozen hinterland, increased temperatures might be no bad thing. However, when road vehicles and pipelines start sinking into the melting tundra, climate change might not be thought such a good thing. There are also all the associated problems, not least the impact on biodiversity.
The Hadley centre and the Tindale centre are both world-class institutions and the former has developed a regional model of its climate change programme, Précis. I had the opportunity to meet academics from various institutions in India who are applying the Précis model to the Indian subcontinent in a first-class project that is supported by my Department as part of its commitment to global sustainability and national sustainable development.
Key to our approach is putting sustainable development at the heart of our policies, as we want them to impact positively beyond political time scales. Our key objectives include the sustainable use of natural resources and protecting the rural, urban, marine and global environments. To make changes sustainable, they must be set alongside economic opportunity and social well-being. One cannot separate the three strands.
Structures are also involved. The hon. Member for Lewes referred to the change from the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions to DEFRA. I acknowledge the arguments for a DETR-type structure because keeping environment, transport and planning together offers certain advantages. But keeping together the environment, all land use policy, all water policy, biodiversity policy, global and national biodiversity, and sustainability in one Department also has advantages. What is key is ensuring that Departments engage with each other. Ministers from my Department have made joint appearances before Select Committees with Ministers from other Departments. The launch of the better building regulations task force involved Secretaries of State from the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister, the Department of Trade and Industry and DEFRA. We are developing joint strategies and there is a collective approach to decision making. All those initiatives are bringing together Government functions on sustainability.
I accept the point that the hon. Member for Lewes made about the importance of transport, but our society is becoming more affluent and people have the freedom to buy cars if they so choose. That does not mean,
however, that we cannot address problems through, for example, the transport plan, which was widely welcomed. The hon. Member for North-West Norfolk (Mr. Bellingham) acknowledged that an additional 1 million people are using rail. We have applied fiscal measures to transport. For example, we have changed company car taxation, which is linked to car emissions rather than engines, as was the case in the past, and have made changes to road tax, which was also linked to engine size. We have introduced a range of measures to address the impact on society of transport, including air travel. We accept that more needs to be done, and that measures on air transport need to be introduced to tackle the issue of pollution and climate change. Air transport is by its very nature a global activity, so we need international agreements and approaches, but that does not mean that we cannot make progress on an EU level, and we are looking at that.
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