| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Mrs. Caroline Spelman (Meriden) (Con): The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs is on record as saying that the ships will be sent back. Is the best environmental solution therefore effectively a U-turn?
Mr. Morley: No. The hon. Lady did not listen to what my right hon. Friend said. She made it clear, in the same words as I have used, that we are seeking the best environmental option. If the option of proper green recycling facilities is not available in this country, the US recognises that the ships will have to be returned. There is no change in the present situation. The hon. Lady joined the bandwagon on these ships, but it ran into a ditch when the green groups recognised that the incident had been exaggerated disgracefully. Is she saying that she does not want Able to be developed as a world-class recycling facility?
Mrs. Spelman: Of course I would love to see a world-class facility at Able, but the dry dock has not yet been built and the ships are moored up next to Seal sands in Hartlepool. While I entirely share the Minister's desire for the best environmental solution, we both need to be clear about exactly what was said.
Mr. Morley: Indeed. That is why I have made it clear to interested parties that there are no shortcuts in this process and that there will be no compromise on the environmental assessments that will have to be made in relation to the adjacent special protection area. We do not know whether the dry dock facilities can be put in place, the payments approved and planning permission granted; those are issues to be resolved by the company and the appropriate authorities. At the moment, it is a hypothetical situation, and we shall have to see how it develops.
Norman Baker: The Minister seems to be keeping his options open as regards the best environmental option—as indeed he must, given that there is no planning permission, no dry dock and no licence. How does he square that pragmatic position with the extract that I quoted from the letter that his officials sent to MEPs late last year, which suggests that the decision has already been taken to dispose of the ships in Hartlepool—in other words, that it is a fait accompli?
Mr. Morley: I saw that letter, and I do not give it that interpretation. It is entirely consistent with the position that I spelled out to the House, which is the position at the present time.
Paddy Tipping: Surely it is wrong to focus on these alleged ghost ships, because the bigger issue is that increasing numbers of ships will require decommissioning. Instead of arguing about the specifics, should we not leave that to the courts and work on developing a strategy, in the UK, Europe and internationally, to tackle the problem?
Mr. Morley: My hon. Friend is right. That work is in progress. A review of UK facilities and an assessment of
future demand are under way. For example, we calculate that approximately 2,000 single-hull tankers are EU-flagged and they will need to be tackled in proper facilities. Apart from not wishing ships to be exported to countries that do not have proper facilities, health and safety measures or hazardous waste handling equipment, we are considering an environmental business. I see nothing wrong with developing environmental businesses in this country, provided that they fulfil the proper standards. There is a considerable opportunity for businesses in this country in a range of environmental business, not only ship recycling.I welcome the debate. It is useful to tackle important and serious issues. The whole Government take environmental matters seriously. We try to lead by example in procurement and energy policies. For example, we have exceeded the targets that we set for the share of power from renewables and combined heat and power in Government estates and for the standards that we apply. We have reduced water use and increased recycling, but we want to do a great deal more. We want sustainability to be at the heart of every Government policy, whether on transport, housing or development. We hope that new developments such as Thames gateway, which will be Europe's biggest brownfield development, will set the pace for reducing energy and water use and building in sustainable transport.
I saw an interesting development by BedZed for sustainable zero emission housing that had workshop units underneath homes so that people could work where they live. Such developments are not appropriate in all parts of the country, but they have a role to play. I am pleased by the proposal for up to 2,000 of those units in the Thames gateway. I therefore believe that Thames gateway gives us a chance to demonstrate some cutting-edge technology in sustainable design and planning.
Mr. Francois: I thank the Minister for his courtesy in allowing me to intervene before he concludes. He mentions Thames gateway, where he well knows that there are issues about building on a flood plain. He also knows from discussions that he and I have held about the concerns in Essex about the reorganisation of flood defence committees. In a non-partisan manner, I remind him of that and stress to him that it is important to the people of Essex to be allowed to retain a flood defence committee, not least to provide reassurance about the sort of things that he has just mentioned.
Mr. Morley: I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on getting Essex flood defence committees into a debate on the environment and Thames gateway. He knows that I acknowledge the case for local involvement. We have not taken the final decision about the structure of the new single-tier flood defence committees, but he knows that I am sympathetic to the case that Essex has made and that I invited that committee to present some proposals. I shall consider them in due course.
Flood plain development is important and we have changed the planning policy guidance to reflect that. Indeed, we are reviewing PPG10 on development, energy and a range of sustainable issues. Thames gateway is currently defended to the level of one in 1,000, which is very high. We have long had big urban
centres, such as Hull, on flood plains. They can be defended; of course, that entails a cost. That brings me back to where I started: climatic change.When we present arguments to convince people, we admit that there are costs, through caps, to industry in carbon trading. We understand that that has an impact, but if we do not tackle global warming, there will be huge costs to society. I pay tribute to Professor King, the Government chief scientist, and Professor Dalton, DEFRA chief scientist, who have been active and outspoken. We cannot ignore the matter. If we do not tackle climate change internationally, the results for our country and the world will be catastrophic.
2.4 pm
Mrs. Caroline Spelman (Meriden) (Con): I tend to agree that an annual debate on the state of the environment is the very least that the Government should provide. I pressed for at least an annual debate on trade justice when I was working on international development.
There are few tests more exacting than the legacy that we leave future generations and the quality of life that we bequeath our children. When I was a child, the major threat to world security was the prospect of a third world war—a nuclear one at that. Today's children grow up facing not only the threat of international terrorism but the genuine prospect of environmental catastrophe. Although international terrorism is unpredictable, we can predict what will happen if we continue to ignore environmental problems. Furthermore, as part of a league of rich nations, if we have the will, we have the power to do something about it.
The Minister referred to the importance of the Doha round and getting the environment on to the agenda. However, an agenda is useless unless there is a meeting at which to discuss it. As we all know, the round collapsed fatally at the talks in Cancun and it has been difficult to get any agenda back on the table. There is therefore no room for complacency among nations that are as well developed as ours.
We need to be clear about what we mean by the environment. The term literally covers a multitude of sins. The fact that the debate is on the state of the environment underlines the breadth of the subject. For some, "environment" evokes concerns about global warming, ozone depletion or renewable energy. For others, it suggests anxieties about the amount of litter locally, river pollution or fly-tipping. It is important to appreciate the divergence in people's understanding of the environment and to make strenuous efforts to tackle each concern. Whether people's environmental concerns are focused locally or globally, there is general recognition that our lifestyle has an effect on the quality of our environment.
There is a vast difference between the outward concerns that people may express publicly and the action—or lack of it—that they take personally. My children are a case in point. They are always quick to point out to me when in the supermarket that we should not buy aerosol cans, but they are the worst offenders for leaving the lights on once we get home. However, the fact that more and more people want to be seen to be
green is encouraging. Environmental concerns often resemble those about car safety in the way in which they have infiltrated the public consciousness.Fifteen years ago, accident safety was not such a high priority for car buyers, as shown by the fact that so few car manufacturers focused on safety as a means of marketing. However, today, vehicle safety is a strong influence on consumer choice. The same pattern is emerging with the environment. The material satisfaction that many have experienced since the 1980s has brought in its wake a new set of anxieties and priorities. Parents who are in the fortunate position of being able to provide fully for their children's immediate needs start to consider the longer-term needs of their children's children. The environment is at the heart of that.
The cultural change is not uniform. We need to recognise and tackle the fact that environmental concerns do not figure especially highly in the priorities of people who live in deprived areas. My constituency has four of the most deprived wards in England and Wales, where daily worries about housing, drug abuse and crime render issues such as landfill and climate change almost irrelevant. I say that because it is important that we recognise that although cultural change may be in train throughout what is crudely termed middle England, there remains a vast tract of society for whom the environment is an expensive luxury.
Improving local environments through reduced litter, fly-tipping and graffiti is a vital component in fostering a sense of pride and responsibility in areas where people live. If we do not tackle the quality of life in deprived urban environments, I fear that we shall miss an opportunity to help facilitate the sort of social improvements that we all want. The Conservative party has a proud history on the environment. I should like to correct the false impression that Lady Thatcher somehow thought of the environment as a humdrum issue. As a scientist, she was one of the first party leaders to bring the environment on to the mainstream political agenda, when she said:
- "We do not have a freehold on the earth, only a full repairing lease."
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |