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Mr. Challen: The point is that, as has been argued, putting a tax on aviation fuel would tax working-class and poorer people out of air travel. They are the people who use public transport, so if they were rewarded in the way that I am suggesting, we could balance the risk that such people would be taxed out of the air.
Mr. Stunell: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that explanation, which puts the idea into a somewhat different context. Perhaps we could debate on a separate occasion how we might run such a card; however, we are some way from that at the moment. I certainly agree that we need to do all that we can to make people aware of the benefits to them of a healthy public transport
system that they actually use. Practically everybody says that they are in favour of a better public transport system—on the basis that others will use it, so that they themselves can drive their cars more rapidly. Some significant work needs to be done to change that situation, and if the hon. Gentleman's proposed card will achieve something, I am certainly prepared to consider it.We need a broad consensus in this House on what needs to be done in terms of the environment and sustainability. The proposal of my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes that there be an annual report, and all that is implied in bringing to the House the key strands of Government policy, are very important. We need a broad consensus because we have to keep going with this project, and not just for one or two Parliaments. For the next eight, nine or 10 Parliaments, and certainly for the next 50 years, this issue will be of fundamental importance. We need that consensus so that we can move matters forward, so that those outside this place can believe with some confidence that they are backing the horse that will come first in the race, and in particular so that we can achieve real results.
If we decide to go for a long-term strategy—the Government have indeed set targets for where they want to be in 2050—the important thing is to ensure that the steps taken between now and 2050 are each of a size that enables them to be taken at the time, but which continue progressively year after year, so that we can reach our goal. For example, we need only a 1 per cent. increase in our renewable generating capacity each year to achieve 50 per cent. by 2050. Admittedly, it will take us another 40-odd years to get there, but that is the time scale and progress that we need to think about.
With that in mind, I want to give credit to the Government for the recent extension of the renewables obligation, beyond 10 per cent. for 2010, to 15 per cent. for 2015. I thoroughly approve of that decision, but I do hope that they will quickly recognise that further progressive increases are needed, because that is the way to lay the foundations of certainty for investment.
Norman Baker: Is my hon. Friend aware that in the 1980s the then Department of Energy predicted that it would be possible to obtain 40 per cent. of our energy from renewable sources by 2020? Back then, development of renewables was very limited, and such matters were the responsibility of the Atomic Energy Authority, which was not necessarily very keen on developing renewables.
Mr. Stunell: I certainly agree with my hon. Friend's underlying point, which is that we have missed several boats over the years. However, we are where we are. We are standing on the quayside, and another boat is available. When we get on it, we must make it go as fast as we can, but the main thing is to ensure that we are on it. It is important to set course in the right direction, and to proceed with all due speed.
I hope that, in responding to the debate, the Minister will pick up on the urgent need to ensure that all Government Departments are focused on this problem and are working together. I hope, too, that he will focus
on the need to achieve a broad consensus throughout the House on the need for the environment and sustainability to be at the heart of policy making. I hope that there can be broad, non-partisan, all-party encouragement to the Minister—and to subsequent Ministers—to make progress in future.2.58 pm
Paddy Tipping (Sherwood) (Lab): I am very pleased to follow the hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Mr. Stunell), particularly given that I am a sponsor of his private Member's Bill. It must make sense to have buildings that are more sustainable and efficient, and which will last us in the long term. I want to reinforce his argument—the hon. Member for Lewes (Norman Baker) made the same point in opening the debate—that the more we can do to achieve a shared long-term strategy, the better it will be for us all.
I am pleased to be involved in what has been a balanced debate, although it has perhaps been out of synchronisation in certain ways. The discussion has concentrated on problems. It is easy to recognise problems, but it is sometimes hard to develop solutions. The reality is that the more we concentrate on solutions instead of problems, the better off we will be in the long term.
The tenor of the debate has been such that we have tended not to recognise the Government's achievements, but to look instead at some of the failures. It is always easy to look at failures, but there have been achievements. The temptation with achievements is simply to pocket them and move on.
Let me remind the House of one or two of the Government's achievements. We are committed to building 60 per cent. of all new housing on brownfield rather than greenfield sites—something for which we all campaigned. When the Government came into office, they stopped the privatisation and progressive sell-off of woodland across the country. We have taken steps to create two new national parks—the South Downs and the New Forest national parks. Significantly, after years of decline, the number of wild birds is at last beginning to increase again. It is important to me that, after 100 years of campaigning by MPs across the country, we will have legislation in force later this year enshrining the right to roam on wild, open spaces. I believe that those are all significant gains, which should not be denied.
I want to deal with one or two problems and try to move us towards partial solutions. The hon. Member for Meriden (Mrs. Spelman) and the hon. Members for Lewes and for Hazel Grove all touched on energy policy. Let us recognise that it is almost the anniversary of the White Paper. I support its aspirations and believe that it is right to move towards a lower carbon economy, but I have anxieties about whether the targets correctly set out in the White Paper will be met. It has already been mentioned that, at the current 3 per cent. figure, we have a long way to go before reaching the 10 per cent. target by 2010, particularly when we have acknowledged that most of the 3 per cent. is traditional hydro energy and that the current rate of acceleration towards renewables is pretty slow.
We should also recognise, as stated in the White Paper, that wind power is the best method of getting us from 3 per cent. to 10 per cent. and then up to 20 per
cent. The language of the White Paper is interesting: it is an aspiration that some people might say is impossible to achieve, but we should strive towards that wind power goal.I believe that there are some problems with on-land wind power. The Minister will remind me that two-thirds of planning applications for new wind farms are either withdrawn or rejected. The great hope—my hon. Friend the Minister for Energy, E-Commerce and Postal Services has campaigned hard for it—is to secure offshore fields. Some important points need to be made about that. Wind power will, by definition, be peripheral and there is a sense in which we need to rewire Britain. We are moving from an energy policy that was dependent on coal and steel to one in which power generation will be more embedded. In those circumstances, that rewiring of Britain will have costs, as will the renewables obligation.
I am anxious about the lack of recognition in the White Paper that energy will cost us more in the future than at present. For the past decade, we have seen low energy prices in relative terms. The White Paper speculates that those prices will, over the next few years, rise by 5 to 15 per cent. I think that it will rise even more and I am very concerned that the social, political and economic consequences have not yet been properly thought through. If energy prices are going to rise more dramatically than predicted in the White Paper, we must reflect carefully on the consequences, particularly for the more disadvantaged members of the community.
I accept the point of the hon. Member for Hazel Grove that we should pursue energy conservation more vigorously. I must confess that, although I am interested in energy policy, I do not understand the whole range of energy conservation measures that are available. I believe that the time has come for us to examine them and review them radically. We need to increase funding, but it is important that we measure outputs and deliver resources to new energy efficiency and conservation programmes according to the amount of carbon that could be saved.
We have acknowledged in the debate that, although carbon emissions are falling, it has been mainly on the back of the coal industry. I believe that the Government are relatively weak on having a coherent policy towards the transport sector. There are few remedies around to tackle the problem. We have an example of congestion charging in London, but it could be the case that, in the short term, the only show in town is to move towards biofuels, by which I mean biodiesel and bioethanol. I am concerned that, although the present duty rates set by the Treasury have been reduced by 20p, that will not be sufficient to encourage the UK biofuel industry.
I believe that biofuels can help us to deliver two policy objectives: to reduce the amount of emissions; and to provide a real lever to help British farmers to bring new investment, and new and different ways of working, into the British rural economy. I am truly concerned about the current Treasury approach of generally accepting in the pre-Budget report that biofuels have a place in our energy policy, because there is a danger of sucking in biofuels from abroad, particularly from Brazil, and failing to encourage our own biofuel industry. I hope that the Minister will pass on my pre-Budget representations to his colleagues in the Treasury. It is
important for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to talk across Government. My main pre-Budget representation is the need for us to be adventurous and imaginative about how we approach biofuels policy.I am not convinced that a further cut in duty rates is necessarily the right way forward. British Sugar, for example, wants to use its factories to create bioethanol. One means of help could be through capital allowances. Another way of helping the whole industry would be to consider having a biofuels escalator. That would allow us to build on the EU biofuel regulations—stipulating 2 per cent. by 2005, though I worry whether we can achieve that—and set ourselves a longer-term goal. By regulation we could encourage an increasing biofuels mix—starting at 1 per cent. and perhaps increasing to 10 per cent. over a 10-year period. That would provide British producers and British farmers with the opportunity to put down roots and develop their business rather than sucking in from abroad. As I said, that is a real danger because biofuels are taking off not only in Europe, but across the world. We need the opportunity to develop our own industry.
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