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3.47 pm
Mr. Morley: With the leave of the House, I should like to respond to the debate.
Some very interesting contributions have been made—by the hon. Members for Lewes (Norman Baker), for Meriden (Mrs. Spelman), for Hazel Grove (Mr. Stunell), for Uxbridge (Mr. Randall) and for Twickenham (Dr. Cable), and by my hon. Friends the Members for Morley and Rothwell (Mr. Challen) and for Sherwood (Paddy Tipping).
I can agree with much that was said, but some of the comments, especially those of the hon. Member for Meriden, were a little ungenerous about the role that DEFRA has established and is establishing, bearing in mind the fact that it was formed in 2001 and has come a long way since. The progress that we have made must be recognised.
In 1997, the waste recycling rate was 7 per cent. We are confident that we shall hit our target of 17 per cent. in 2003–04, and we are on target for 25 per cent. in 2005–06. It is a very challenging target, but we are moving forward. In 1997, the percentage of energy from renewables was 0.7 per cent. We are aiming for 10 per cent. and are extending the target to 15 per cent. This is considerable progress.
The hon. Member for Lewes quoted Jonathan Porritt. Jonathan Porritt's role in government is to be outspoken; he is there to push us on, and he is very good at it. However, he said of the 2002 Budget that it brought about a series of positive sustainability measures. They include such matters as excluding combined heat and power from the climate change levy, and abolishing stamp duty on the most deprived neighbourhoods. We are dealing with an issue of environmental quality of life. That is what my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister was talking about when he mentioned liveability. It is a very important issue, and I shall return to it. There was also a commitment to look at other matters, such as road wear charges based on distances covered by lorries.
A number of hon. Members mentioned airport expansion and other aspects of aviation. The hon. Member for Meriden said that she had had a meeting at Stansted. On that basis, I take it that she does not support the proposal for another runway at Stansted.
Mrs. Spelman: I should make it perfectly clear that, as an environment spokesman, I was not performing the role of transport spokesman; I was specifically talking about the lack of an environmental impact assessment at any airport in the context of the very prescriptive proposals in the White Paper.
Mr. Morley: That is very helpful—we understand that the Conservatives are in favour of a second runway at Stansted—but what the hon. Lady says about environmental assessment is not correct. Let us be absolutely clear that detailed environmental assessments must be conducted as part of the evaluation of extra runways. The third runway at Heathrow cannot go ahead until the airport reduces NOx levels, which will, of course, take a great deal of time and investment.
David Taylor: Does the Minister agree that environmental impact assessments must consider not just extra or longer runways, but significant expansion in use, such as that at East Midlands airport, where stringent noise controls are what the Secretary of State for Transport referred to and what are desperately needed?
Mr. Morley: That is absolutely right. My hon. Friend makes the point very well that all those issues will be examined, and I fully agree that they need to be examined.
The hon. Member for Meriden mentioned pioneering good environmental practice. I believe that the Government have pioneered good environmental practice, especially in carbon trading—the UK is the only country in Europe to introduce its own scheme—and in the other work that we have done. I gently remind her that we inherited a number of directives that had never been fully implemented—for example, the bathing water directive, the nitrates directive and the freshwater fish directive. Indeed, some parts of the waste directive were overdue. Those issues have had to be addressed, and we are applying the various environmental directives properly and effectively, as they should be.
My hon. Friend the Member for Morley and Rothwell rightly referred to consumption and production. Again, the Government have produced a strategy on consumption and production—another pioneering approach that is important for sustainability. He talked about the need to change attitudes towards the approach to sustainability at every level. He is right about that. He also talked about carbon management and renewable energy sources. I am aware of his interest in those issues, and he has some very interesting ideas. I assure him that his views are always welcome, and my door is open to him if he wants to come and talk about them.
The hon. Member for Hazel Grove talked about structures. Indeed, there is always an argument about the structures of government, but I served in the
Ministry of Agriculture Fisheries and Food before it became DEFRA and I have seen the structures change for the better. People in government can always argue about where Departments should go, but the problem is that every issue cannot be dealt with in one Department. Of course people can say that it is good to put planning with the environment or to put transport with the environment—that is all very true—but a balance must be struck about what is effective and what works.I believe that the DEFRA structure is very effective. I remind the hon. Member for Meriden that DEFRA brought in Lord Haskins to look at how our agencies work. He concluded not that DEFRA was in any way ineffective but that there should be a clearer split between policy and delivery, as well as more devolution to the regions in relation to delivery, and we do not disagree. Indeed, we will respond to his recommendations in due course.
Mr. Stunell: I appreciate the line of argument that the Minister is developing, but will he say something about improving co-operation between Departments so that they deliver a coherent objective in the way that he describes?
Mr. Morley: Absolutely. I mentioned in my opening remarks the joint approach taken by Departments and co-operation across Government structures, such as the green Ministers structure—the ENV committee—but the fact is that there is common working in areas of common interest. That has been established; it is being developed, and it is becoming more effective all the time. DEFRA is establishing itself as an effective Department, both nationally and internationally. There is a lot of interest in DEFRA internationally. A lot of people come to see its structures and how it works. There is a lot of experience in DEFRA—able civil servants, able officials and excellent scientists. People have been attracted to work for DEFRA and have joined in recent years because of the new structures, and we should be proud of the expertise in the Department.
My hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood was right to talk about the need to address the whole issue of renewables—not only wind, but other important renewables. He mentioned biofuels, in which I know he has an interest. Biofuel production in this country has had an enormous boost under the policies that have been put in place. The last figures that I saw showed that some 2 million litres of biodiesel are produced a week, which is not only due to the 20p reduction in duty, but because it can be grown on set-aside land, which attracts specific subsidies. There is a whole package of measures to encourage the production of biofuels. He was also right to say that there is potential for a range of non-food industrial crops in addition to biofuels. The Government are providing a great deal of support for the research and development of crops such as hemp for clothing and vehicle parts, and bio-oils. There is a great deal of potential for non-food crops, so we are giving that the attention that it deserves.
My hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood mentioned water. I know that he has a particular interest in sewers, which we talked about during our useful meeting earlier today. There is no doubt that water will be a major political issue not only in this country, but internationally. Although our country has always been
considered to be not exactly short of water, water resource management will become more pressing and something that we cannot take for granted. We must recognise that the changes in our weather patterns, with milder and wetter winters and hotter and drier summers, will have a range of implications. Water resource management at every level—drinking water management, and flood and coastal management—will be important.
Norman Baker: Is the Minister worried that the Deputy Prime Minister is concentrating housing development in the south-east, which is where water resources are under the most stress?
Mr. Morley: That gives us an example of the integration about which hon. Members talk. Water management and supply is one of the strategies for housing development in the south-east. I assure the hon. Gentleman that there will be no development unless the water supply is secure because that must feature in planning from its initial stages. We are actually going further than that. I mentioned new developments in which one has the opportunity to build in sustainability at the beginning. We are setting a target for new houses in the Thames gateway to reduce water use by 30 per cent., which can be achieved through modest investment in water-saving devices. In fact, we can go further with technology depending on what people are prepared to pay.
The hon. Member for Uxbridge, who has a long-standing interest in the environment and biodiversity, especially, made several important and sensible points. I agree that sometimes, especially on the international stage, people talk about the environment and biodiversity as two separate issues. That is a mistake, because biodiversity is certainly an environmental indicator. Where there is strong and healthy biodiversity, there is a strong and healthy environment—the two go hand in glove. He will be aware that the Government use several important biodiversity indicators as part of our strategy to measure sustainability and quality of life.
The hon. Member for Twickenham mentioned leadership. We have put in place a range of measures on liveability. We are addressing fly-tipping, urban life and the quality of life. Our tough targets on climate change are important and require political leadership from the very top. Otherwise, we would not be able to set targets. That emphasises the Prime Minister's commitment to measures such as the landfill escalator, climate change levy and aggregate levy. The hon. Gentleman rightly mentioned the financial instruments from the Treasury, which come from the top in terms of the lead given by the Prime Minister, Chancellor of the Exchequer and Cabinet in the priority given to the World Trade Organisation, reform of the CAP and the emphasis on private and commercial sustainable production and consumption.
The hon. Gentleman was wrong in respect of end-of-life vehicles. We have reached agreement that they will be the responsibility of the makers of the marques. That scheme will be put in place, along with other directives demonstrating the Government's commitments to sustainability—many of which are admired internationally, most of which are effective and others of
which have still to be developed. But no one should doubt the commitment at every level of the Government, right to the top.Question put, That the original words stand part of the Question:—
The House divided: Ayes 183, Noes 306.
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