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Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): Order. I hope that the Minister is not going to go into the merits of the Bill itself rather than talking about the money resolution.

Dr. Ladyman: No, Madam Deputy Speaker, I intended—

Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): Has the Minister seen the cost benefit analysis of the Bill produced by Carers UK? If so, is there anything in that analysis with which he disagrees?

Dr. Ladyman: I am not aware that I have seen that particular analysis, although I have seen much of the data that it contains. I certainly agree with the general principle of Carers UK—that looking after carers is an extremely cost-effective way of delivering care to those in need.

I was about to say, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I intended only to identify the issues that would enable me to make the case that by the end of its Committee stage the Bill will not place an onerous burden on the Exchequer.

An amended clause 1 will ensure that assessment is undertaken in a manner that understands and explores the possibility that carers should be able to participate in life beyond their caring duties and think beyond what they need to continue to care. We all recognise that there is plenty of best practice information and guidance about what constitutes an effective carers assessment for people working with carers of both adults and disabled children. However, we believe that it is appropriate that we have a means to ensure that the few who do not routinely inform carers of their rights to an assessment follow the practice of the majority who do.

The introduction of the duty to inform in clause 3 will ensure that, for example, during the process of a community care assessment, professionals will have a duty to inform carers that they may have the right to request an assessment of their needs. The right to the assessment exists under the Carers (Recognition and Services) Act 1995 and the Carers and Disabled Children Act 2000, and the clause would merely ensure that carers were made aware of that right. Evidence suggests that that will not significantly increase the number of requests for carers assessments. It is realistic to expect that the majority of carers providing regular and substantial care are already known to social services. It is important to emphasise that we believe that any small increases in the number of carers assessments is likely to be gradual and in line with our stated policy objective of improving performance on carers assessments.

Clause 4 will also place a duty on authorities to consider requests from social services to develop services for carers and their families in a more holistic manner. The emphasis on whole systems and joint working means that it is vital that councils have the ability to draw on the powers and expertise of other

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parts of the health and social care system. Carers are a heterogeneous group; their needs reflect not only the varied people they care for but their own diversity.

Most people accept that partnership working between health and social services is crucial in the planning and provision of services for those who want to continue to live independently in the community. Indeed, working collaboratively is routine in most places, and the clause will help to ensure that the role of carers is recognised in the partnership. We estimate that any costs to local government of implementing those clauses would be very small, and would be funded from existing resource allocations.

The parts of the Bill that cause us concern were well documented in the Second Reading debate on 6 February. They relate to obligations that have the potential not only to place new financial burdens on councils but to limit their ability to respond to local circumstances. For example, the uncertain scope of clause 1(1), which does not make it clear what social services would actually be required to do if they were under this duty, and the provision of the regulation-making power in clause 1(3) both have unpredictable cost implications. Clause 2 would have us dictate to councils the form and content of their community plans, and it would require a consultation and review process, which would have direct costs to councils.

Finally, with regard to clause 5, my Department considers that, in substance, that duty already exists under section 22 of the National Health Service Act 1977 and that it will impose no additional costs on authorities. As a consequence, we will table an amendment to remove it from the Bill.

It is appropriate to address the issue of existing resources because the cost of the Bill must be met from those funds. The House will be aware that we increased the national resources for personal social services by 20 per cent. in real terms between 1996–97 and 2002–03. That is an average real-terms increase of 3 per cent. per annum, and we will continue to increase resources until 2005–06 by an average of about 6 per cent. per annum in real terms. I would be in dereliction of my duty as a Minister if I did not point out that that compares with an average increase of 0.1 per cent. per annum under the previous Government.

Next year, total social services resources for adults are set to increase by 8.2 per cent., or £775 million. That increase includes a 6.8 per cent. rise in formula spending shares, as well as extra resources that have been provided to local authorities to enable them to expand community-based social care services. That will both improve services for carers and raise the skills and quality of the social care work force. That will ensure that support for carers is provided by appropriate and high quality services.

In addition, resources for children's social services have increased from almost £3.7 billion in 2003–04 to slightly more than £4 billion in 2004–05. That provides for an overall increase in total resources of some 8.7 per cent. In addition, every council will receive additional resources for children's social services as a result of the Government's decision to provide councils with an additional £100 million.

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Specifically with regard to supporting carers, the carers grant came from the commitment in the strategy to provide funding to ensure that carers had access to short breaks. Subsequently, and in response to requests from carers, the conditions have become more flexible to increase choice and control, improve the responsiveness, quality and accessibility of services and increase holiday and leisure options. It is a tangible sign of our ongoing commitment to carers that the grant has increased annually since it started. It is worth £100 million this year and is set to rise to £125 million in 2004–05 and £185 million by 2006.

Hon. Members may be concerned by the removal of the ring fence around the carers grant next year. The money will still be paid as targeted grant with the intention that at least that amount of money should be spent on carers. That means that the Government are reducing the prescriptive nature of grant provision in response to councils' requests. The removal of the ring fence allows councils to provide appropriate and responsive services to address the needs of local carers. Just to make sure that councils are in no doubt, however, that will be measured by the development of a new carers performance indicator.

In the light of that significant increase in funding for councils and the support expressed to my hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon by the Local Government Association and the Association of Directors of Social Services, the Bill has, with amendments, the potential to support that group of people to whom we owe such a lot, without imposing additional costs during a time of fiscal restraint. Councils must recognise the crucial role that carers play in enabling individuals to remain independent in the community for as long as they want. However, it must also be appreciated that that often comes at a price for the carer in terms of their health, well-being, self-esteem and employment prospects. I hope that councils will understand and recognise the drive behind the Bill.

The Bill will need work if it is ultimately to receive Government support. My hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon and I are both committed to doing that work, and the determination is there to ensure that the seeds of change sown by earlier legislation will develop our public services for the benefit of carers and those for whom they care.

1.44 pm

Mr. Paul Goodman (Wycombe) (Con): The official Opposition support the Bill, and the Minister will remember that we backed it on Second Reading. It offers the prospect of equal opportunities and real help for carers, and I congratulate the hon. Member for Aberavon (Dr. Francis) and his Bill team, which includes my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry), on introducing it. If we support the ends of the Bill, it follows that we must support the means. Therefore the Minister will not be astonished to hear that we do not propose to oppose the money resolution—indeed, we expect it to be unopposed.

Naturally, we want to probe the Minister a little further about some of the details that he announced, and I shall begin with a point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury. Carers UK supports the Bill and believes that it would bring few costs and several

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benefits. It cites the benefits as reduced health costs, increased work participation rates, reduced state benefits and increased revenue from tax and national insurance.

On costs, Carers UK argues that clause 1, which lays upon local authorities a duty to promote equality of opportunity for carers, would not be burdensome. It cites provisions in the draft Disability Discrimination Bill, which lays a similar duty on public bodies in relation to people with disabilities, as being more costly.

Clause 2 seeks to ensure that provision for carers is written into community strategies, and Carers UK states that that would not add substantially to the costs of drawing up those strategies.

Clause 3 is perhaps the nub of the Bill. It would require local authorities to inform carers that they have the right to an assessment of need, and it would not add substantially to local authorities' costs. On that issue, Carers UK cites evidence gleaned from the Scottish Executive—that duty is already written into the law in Scotland—and the Minister appeared to agree with that point when he spoke on Second Reading.

We recognise that the Minister does not appear to have read the Carers UK documents, but he will have noted the points. Perhaps he can tell us whether Carers UK is broadly right to argue that the Bill will bring few costs and several benefits and that the money resolution, which we believe will be passed today, will not bring substantial costs to the Exchequer.

Being relatively new to money resolutions, I have examined the money resolution carefully. It states:


I thought, perhaps wrongly, that I saw the Minister smile slightly as he read out those words, which might, to those of us who are new to money resolutions, appear somewhat obscure. The Minister then said that money would come from existing resource allocation. I confess that I am still unsure which particular budget or budgets he expects funds that may be paid out in pursuit of the ends of the Bill to come from. Perhaps he can clear up that matter for me when he replies. He might also wish to spell out whether local government will be fully compensated for what he described as the "very small" costs it is likely to incur.

Finally, the Minister will recall saying on Second Reading:


During that debate—the Minister has echoed this point today—he was broadly satisfied by clause 4 and perhaps clause 3, but he had considerable reservations about clauses 1, 2 and 5; in other words, he had reservations about three of the five clauses. It therefore seems reasonable to suspect that he proposes to table

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substantial amendments to the Bill; in essence, he approves of the principle of the Bill, but he intends to demolish several sections of its main architecture.


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