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3.36 pm
Sandra Gidley (Romsey) (LD): I welcome this debate, which now seems to be an annual fixture, which is a very good thing. In past years the debate has focused a little more on national issues, whereas the slightly different title of the debate this year prompted more thoughts on international issues. I will therefore cover some of those issues. My speech will be shorter than I intended because we now have a debate on Tuesday on women in the
world, to which some of the material may be easily transferred. I therefore hope that more Members will be able to speak.We cannot ignore the United Kingdom completely, because, sadly, we have not yet got it completely right. I therefore make no apologies for starting with matters close to home. I want to acknowledge particularly the work of the Equal Opportunities Commission, which seems to be going from strength to strength. Hon. Members have already alluded to some of the work. I was going to talk at some length about the pay gap, but much of the material has been covered. Clearly, it is not right that the gap is still 18 per cent., although it is narrowing, as has been acknowledged. In relation to full-time work of a man and part-time work of a woman, however, the gap is still 40 per cent. I want to place it on the record that I appreciate that the Government can do only so much.
Even more alarming, the pay gap on graduation is 15 per cent. That is exercising my mind considerably at the moment, as my daughter is due to graduate. I was interested by the comments of the hon. Member for Meriden (Mrs. Spelman) about the psychological and social pressures on women to choose certain types of work. When I consider my daughter and her peer group, it is apparent to me that the men are much more interested in career paths that value money and status, while the women tend to look for careers that will give them personal satisfaction. I do not know whether that is a throwback to the old-fashioned attitude that women can afford to adopt such careers because a man will keep them eventually. I sincerely hope not, and I think that such attitudes are probably a thing of the past. Nevertheless, there is evidently a bias towards a particular type of work in each group. Schools could do something about that. I am not suggesting that they should raise aspirations, for it is admirable to aspire to a job that contributes to society in some way, but it might be an idea to consider how we value certain roles.
I am keen on the idea of pay audits. Not all my colleagues agree with me, so I am not exactly spouting a party line. I think it is quite healthy not to spout a party mantra all the time, as it happens. In my opinion, if there is more transparency in the way in which men and women are paid, women will vote with their feet. They will prefer to work for companies in which they see that women are valued equally and given equal bonuses, with no covert discrimination. Companies will eventually realise that if they cannot take their pick of the best women out there—who are often the best people out there—they will lose out.
Much has been said about occupational segregation. The child care industry, for instance, is predominantly female. It is also very poorly paid, which, sadly, demonstrates the value that is attached to it. It seems perverse that we should pay so little for a service that involves our handing over something as precious to us as responsibility for our children. The fact that women on low pay want to be able to afford child care so that they can go on working does not mean that it too should be a low-paid profession.
How can we encourage more women to take up science? I think things have improved over the years, although the figures may not suggest that. I remember getting into a strop as a 14-year-old schoolgirl because I
could not study physics. I did not particularly want to study physics, but it was anathema to me to be told that I could not. I studied a range of other science subjects. Only when I took my books off to the library and refused to take part in geography or Latin lessons did the teachers decide to provide a physics teacher. That would not happen in a school today. We have made some progress in developing the curriculum.I made a stand about something else as well. I did not want to do cooking; I wanted to do woodwork. In fact, I did not especially want to do woodwork either, but I thought that we would have a session with the boys. The plan backfired, because all the boys were made to do cookery, and the impetus behind the little campaign that I had initiated as a 13-year-old—at a different school, I hasten to add—was lost. Nowadays the curriculum is designed much more evenly.
Mrs. Betty Williams: We have made great strides with the help of WISE—Women into Science and Engineering. The school curriculum, among other things, has improved greatly over the last five years. We have people such as Marie-Noëlle Barker to thank for that.
Sandra Gidley: I was about to mention WISE. Before I became an MP, I had the pleasure of spending half days on a bus with girls from the local school whom I was encouraging to study science—although I myself became a politician, which seems perverse. Sadly, however, that brilliant initiative has not reached enough girls. That school would often select a higher stream of girls to go on to the bus, and I think schools should think about providing equal access.
IBM launched another welcome initiative. It is in the Winchester constituency, just across the border from mine. It invited a number of young women aged 13 and 14 on to its premises for a week to engage in various science-based activities. The aim was to encourage them to work for a science-based company in the future—not necessarily as scientists, but in a science-based environment. They chose some girly ways of getting science messages across, but it was an excellent initiative and it would be helpful if the Government could encourage more companies to follow that example. All the girls I spoke to at the end of the week were very enthusiastic about the scheme. It opened their eyes to an area of work that they had previously thought was completely closed off to them.
Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: I presume that the hon. Lady is aware of specialist school status, specifically schools that have been awarded technology status. That was done, more often than not, in conjunction with local industrialists who really want an industry-based or industry-supported education system because there is a desperate need for more young men and women to enter the professions of science, technology and engineering.
Sandra Gidley: I am aware of specialist colleges, but I was not aware that they had any particular success at recruiting females, so I shall examine the matter further. The hon. Lady certainly makes an interesting observation.
I shudder to mention Parliament, but I have to acknowledge the fact that we now have more female MPs. Hand on heart, they are not mainly in my or the
other Opposition party, which is a disappointment. Nevertheless, I acknowledge that the greater presence of women has had a positive influence on policy so far. The number of women in the Cabinet was mentioned, but it is too easy to take one's eye off the ball. Recently, when the Chairs of Select Committees stood in front of the Prime Minister, I was struck by how few females were present; little attention seems to have been paid to that. I hope that the position will improve.A recent Equal Opportunities Commission campaign focused on discrimination against women in pregnancy. Last year, more than 1,000 women took legal action because they felt that they had been dismissed simply because of their pregnancies, but the Equal Opportunities Commission described it as the tip of the iceberg. That is probably a realistic comment on the position. Some women who are thinking of becoming pregnant restrict their career choices because they are worried about the real incidence of discrimination.
I believe that the fines are nowhere near adequate. In a recent fairly high-profile case, a woman who worked for a law firm won, but the fine imposed on the company was a fraction of her annual salary—water off a duck's back for the company concerned. That makes it easy for companies to dismiss such women. The woman thought that she had a reasonable settlement until she discovered that, in the same week, a young girl who had worked for a firm for only two weeks had received a much greater financial pay-off because she had suffered some form of sexual harassment. It did not, however, involve touching—only talking and making observations about the young woman concerned. I do not want to diminish the seriousness of sexual harassment in any way, but it does seem odd that we place less weight on discrimination in pregnancy than on a relatively minor case of sexual harassment. The scales of justice do not seem equally balanced in respect of the fines.
I welcome the plans to form a single equality body. There is considerable evidence to show that other inequalities such as race and disability are often exacerbated for women.
I also want to mention domestic violence. That is not just a women's issue, but I make no apology for mentioning it today, because the reality is that far more victims are women. The Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Bill is welcome, but it does not address all the problems. One possible improvement to the proposals has already been mentioned.
The thematic shadow report of the committee on the convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women on violence against women in the UK may be a bit of a mouthful but it is interesting and timely. The authors state:
- "Given that a number of the issues highlighted in the report have been recognised for at least five years, there is an argument that the UK Government is consistently and knowingly failing to meet due diligence standards of human rights protection with respect to its female population."
Most important, the report states that there is no strategic plan of action in England and Wales in respect of violence against women, although Scotland and Northern Ireland have done better. The result is an over-emphasis on domestic violence when it comes to policy, research and provision, but a failure to make connections between forms of violence, in terms of consequences and underlying causes. Very often, there is either a lack of knowledge in a particular area, or a duplication of effort. The Government must make an effort to join all the bits up.
The report also found that there was minimal resourcing in the specialist non-governmental organisation sector, and a consistent lack of sanctions against violent and abusive men. I appreciate that the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Bill seeks to address some of those problems, but it is probably not enough.
The emphasis on domestic violence means that other forms of violence and exploitation are in danger of being ignored. For example, the conviction rate for rape is very low, at about 5 per cent. It is also difficult to secure convictions in offences such as the sexual abuse, exploitation or trafficking of children, and the questions of prostitution and pornography are also thorny.
The CEDAW report also deals with trafficking. Mention was made earlier of people's increased mobility. That exacerbates the trafficking problem. People can legitimately move around more easily, but there are many more opportunities for trafficking, and women's inequality and vulnerability mean that they are much more likely to be recruited to or entrapped in it. That again is linked to gender aspects of conflict and poverty, and life experiences such as childhood sexual abuse, domestic violence and poor status.
In this area, the Government's attention has been poor. They funded a small exploratory study called "Stopping Traffic", but little progress has been made on its recommendations. The Sexual Offences Act 2003 was a missed opportunity. I was a member of the Committee that considered the Bill, and many attempts were made to amend it. Proposals included providing a period of reflection for trafficked victims, with financial support and possibly even temporary residence. I point out to the House that the temporary residence proposal was supported by an EU directive, and that the 2003 Act does not comply with the definition of trafficking contained in the UN convention against transnational organised crime protocol.
I visited Italy last year, where provision in respect of trafficking is streets ahead of ours. Trafficking is a bigger problem there, but a number of safe havens are provided for victims. They can stay at those places in safety for a while, and are not immediately deported back to their country of origin. That has resulted in a much higher conviction rate of traffickers. We in this country lag behind in that. Sweden, too, thinks it important to provide for this period of reflection. As a consequence it has a higher conviction rate of traffickers and is stamping down on the problem.
There seems to be an unwritten, almost unsaid, feeling that people will automatically want to stay here and will use this as an excuse to press for staying. That has not
necessarily been the experience of other countries. It is necessary to separate trafficking from immigration; they are two very different problems. If a very right-wing Government in Italy can manage that, it is not beyond the capabilities of this Government. When will the United Kingdom Government ratify the UN convention against transnational organised crime and the protocol on trafficking in women and children?Finally, I turn to post-conflict problems. The Minister mentioned Sierra Leone. I sincerely hope that work is done there. Examples from Afghanistan and Iraq do not augur well for the future. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Joan Ruddock). She was in her place earlier and I was hoping that she would speak. She has done much work to highlight the plight of Afghan women. In a recent magazine article she tellingly made the point that in the past Afghan women were educated and were not the helpless, burqa-clad figures portrayed by the media. She went on to say, and I hoped she might expand on this, that she feared that we were breaking our promises to Afghan women and that the continuing abuse of human rights of women was on a grand scale: widespread forced and under-age marriage of girls aged 10 to 16, a defence for honour killings still in place, and increased violence in the home. A new threat is the ever-present threat of rape or sexual assault by members of armed groups. The lack of physical security has had a huge impact and prevents women from participating in the political reconstruction process. I do not believe the picture is much better in Iraq. The Minister spoke of extremists, but I am not sure that extremism can be blamed for all the problems that are emerging and need to be dealt with. We have to face some of the attitudes of society head on. The telling point was made earlier that we have to make it clear that human rights and the wishes of a religion are not incompatible. There should be some way of accommodating both. That is difficult to achieve, but the most difficult things are often the most worth doing.
Despite an agreement that women should make up 25 per cent. of the Iraqi national assembly—that is welcome and better than here—the 18-member committee that is drafting the constitution does not include a single woman. There is evidence that women who have tried to run for local office have been told by men at candidate registration offices that women cannot be candidates. On the streets of Iraq more women and girls—
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