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Mr. Murphy: I hope to do so in a few seconds. My explanation may not satisfy the hon. Gentleman, but I hope that it will satisfy others.
As I said, by creating an offence of seeking to influence the prosecution decision-making process, we will make sure that those who seek to impinge on the independence of the prosecution will be brought to book. The offence is deliberately linked to the well-understood idea of perverting the course of justice. We want to ensure that innocent approaches, such as a doctor passing medical information to the DPP, or a person writing in defence of a relative, are not criminalised. We want to ensure that it is understood by people who seek to raise such issues that those approaches are not criminal. The offence targets activities with malicious intent.
The criminal justice review concluded that human rights and dignity should be a core value of the criminal justice system in all its aspects, and the Government fully endorse that view. To integrate human rights awareness into the criminal justice system still further, a requirement will be placed on criminal justice organisations to have proper regard to guidance on relevant international human rights standards in carrying out their functions. That guidance will be issued by the Attorney-General.
Lady Hermon: Would the Secretary of State elaborate on which international human rights conventions or declarations the Government have in mind in clause 7?
Mr. Murphy: The hon. Lady will have to wait until later this afternoon for a detailed answer to that, but it will be provided. I am conscious that many Members want to speak in the debate, and I am sure that she is one of them. We will be able to give her a full and proper answer later.
The Bill introduces a right of appeal for the prosecution against the grant of bail by a magistrate's court. We believe that that is appropriate in terms of bringing Northern Ireland into line with Great Britain. That provision is supported by the police and by the Director of Public Prosecutions.
The Bill brings arrangements for breach of bail in scheduled cases into line with current practice in non-scheduled cases and makes some minor amendments in relation to the treatment of those on bail in non-scheduled cases.
The independent review of security in Maghaberry prison that was conducted by John Steele and others concluded that republican and loyalist paramilitary prisoners should, on a voluntary basis, be accommodated separately from each other and from other prisoners. That recommendation has been accepted, and work to implement it is ongoing. The review also recommended that those new separated arrangements should be backed by a range of measures to prevent deterioration into segregation as it operated in the past in HMP Maze. The Bill introduces, as one such measure, a new power allowing the transfer of a prisoner from Northern Ireland to another prison in England or Wales in the interests of maintaining security and good order in prisons. Northern Ireland has only one high-security prison, and the dispersal of troublesome prisoners within the Northern Ireland Prison Service estate is not therefore possible.
David Burnside: Further to the separation of prisoners in Maghaberry for understandable prison security
reasons, can the Secretary of State confirm whether prison governors are negotiating directly with the Provisional IRA and the loyalist paramilitary leadership in those prisons?
Mr. Murphy: I understand that the prison management in those prisons are dealing with the organisations to which the hon. Gentleman refers in the sense of a compact. The word "negotiation" would perhaps be inappropriate in such cases. In terms of considering what is best done in those prisons, all prisoners were asked their views on the Steele recommendations when they were put forward. Beyond that, the prison governors have been talking to the Prison Officers Association and dealing with the political parties.
Very wide consultation has taken place on the proposals. That is important, because we want them to work. I know that the hon. Gentleman wants them to work, too, which is why he said that separation is important for safety's sake. Under the proposal, in the event of a situation involving an exceptionally troublesome prisoner that disrupts the only high-security prison in Northern Ireland, provision is made for transfer to Great Britain.
Mr. Iain Luke (Dundee, East) (Lab): On the transfer of prisoners, is my right hon. Friend aware of the great concern that is felt by many who serve on the Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs, and who reviewed the issue of separation in Maghaberry prison, as well as by many on the mainland? They fear that if this proposal is implemented, it may be used as a tool or a weapon by the paramilitaries to seek further political gain to the detriment of the prison authorities in Northern Ireland or, indeed, to impede the peace process.
Mr. Murphy: We agreed with the Steele tribunal's recommendation that it is important to deal with safety problems both inside and outside prisons. It was, after all, an independent tribunal, which, incidentally, had the support of the Churches and of those right across the political spectrum in Northern Ireland. Obviously, I hope that the provision does not have to be used, but as the tribunal made the recommendation and we considered it sensible, we have to legislate for it. We added these measures to the Bill because they are good common sense and the Bill is an appropriate vehicle.
Rev. Martin Smyth (Belfast, South) (UUP): May I press the Secretary of State on this issue? Is he aware that, although he used the term "independent" in reference to the committee, concern has been expressed that interference from a higher authority was involved in its setting up?
Will the Secretary of State give a guarantee on behalf of the Government that there will be no outside interference with the internal discipline of the prison when those in the Prison Service seek to hold the line in protecting the safety of prisoners?
Mr. Murphy: There was certainly no interference from on high, from outside, or whatever phrase one might want to use. I wholly reject that. It was my decision to institute the independent tribunal, two of the
three members of which are former clergymen who were prison chaplains. They, and John Steele himself, are people of the highest integrity, and I accepted their recommendations in their entirety. They were sensible recommendations that will ensure that we deal properly with the safety of prisoners inside the prison and prison officers outside the prison. That is an important issue for all the people of Northern Ireland.On the hon. Gentleman's point about prison safety, we must not return to what happened at the Maze over all those years, when the prison—or part of it—was controlled by paramilitary groups. That is certainly not my intention or that of the Government. We are considering the safety of people in those prisons—officers and prisoners—and we thought that separation was the best way forward.
Mr. Harry Barnes (North-East Derbyshire) (Lab): My right hon. Friend is talking about the transfer of prisoners from Northern Ireland. Why is that to apply both to paramilitaries and to ordinary prisoners? It is argued that paramilitary prisoners may apply pressure to try to turn separation into segregation, so the provision goes too far. Would it not have been a good idea to have engaged in separation in the first place?
Mr. Murphy: As I said, it is not the Government's view that separation means segregation—we are opposed to that. However, the provision has to be put on the statute book in case it is ever needed. As my hon. Friends know, the difficulty is that prison resources in Northern Ireland are limited—there is effectively only one high-security prison. That means that from time to time we need to call on the Prison Service elsewhere in order to deal with troublesome prisoners.
The Bill will amend section 103(2)(e) of the Terrorism Act 2000. The Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) (Amendment) Act 1975 criminalised intelligence gathering against those working in the Prison Service in Northern Ireland. The Terrorism Act 2000 makes it an offence to collect information relating to a
- "full-time employee of the prison service".
The Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland is anxious to have the power of arrest without warrant for the offence of driving while disqualified. That power exists in the rest of the United Kingdom. I hope that hon. Members on both sides of the House will be able fully to support the taking of firmer action against the serious problem of disqualified driving.
The powers of court security officers, as set out in the Justice (Northern Ireland) Act 2002, are built on to ensure that all relevant buildings have adequate protection.
The Bill deals with the fact that barristers in Northern Ireland cannot enter into contracts for the provision of their services, whereas those in England and Wales can. It brings the situation in Northern Ireland into line with that in England and Wales.
I have to disagree with the reasoned amendment tabled by the Opposition. The Bill does not weaken the criminal justice system in Northern Ireland. Its purpose is twofold. First, we are continuing to build a criminal justice system that has the confidence of the whole community. Secondly, we are increasing the powers that are available to the criminal justice system, especially to the police and the courts, so that they are able to do their job more effectively. The Bill does not in any way weaken the criminal justice system—rather, it strengthens it on two counts.
Nor does the Bill undermine the judiciary. The Government are wholly committed to judicial independence, and that fundamental principle is asserted clearly and unambiguously in the Bill. All measures in the Bill relating to the judiciary meet that standard. Likewise, the principle of appointment solely on the basis of merit is asserted in the text of the Bill. Contrary to the Opposition's insinuation, appointment on merit alone is not incompatible with efforts to ensure that the widest pool of talent is available from which to make such appointments.
Furthermore, there is no reason to suppose that the procedures set out in the Bill politicise the judiciary. The 2002 Act makes it clear that
- "those with responsibility for the administration of justice must uphold the continued independence of the judiciary".
The Government look forward to the day when decisions on local justice will be placed in the hands of local Ministers. We are confident that that devolution will happen when the time is right: when we have a stable Assembly and Executive; when there is an enabling security environment; and when the local parties are ready to make the devolution of justice and policing a reality. In the meantime, we have a responsibility to set the pace by continuing to improve the criminal justice system in Northern Ireland in a way that maximises public confidence and political support.
The Bill's provisions mark an important step in the reform and development of the justice system in Northern Ireland. The Bill will help to provide for an even fairer, more efficient and more effective justice system. It will provide for a justice system that is more transparent, open and accountable, and that will instil even greater levels of confidence in all parts of the community. The Bill is another milestone on Northern Ireland's journey to a just, stable and peaceful future, and I commend it to the House.
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