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3.30 pm
Mr. Nigel Dodds (Belfast, North) (DUP): Normally, when major legislation on criminal justice and the reform of the courts has been passed, the Government allow a period of time to pass so that the various changes can settle and bed in, and we can consider how they are operating in practice. Yet a mere two years after the passage of the Justice (Northern Ireland) Act 2002, we are considering a further measure on the implementation of the justice system in Northern Ireland. Furthermore, as other Members have pointed out, the Bill follows three recent pieces of primary legislation on policing in Northern Ireland.
Many of the provisions of the 2002 Act are not yet in force. Legislation for England and Wales, which could also apply to Northern Ireland, is introduced in the other place, with the difficulties that have already been mentioned. What is the Government's motivation in their rush to introduce legislation? The hon. Member for Hull, North (Mr. McNamara) and others have given us the answer. They have referred not to what should be the driving force for the measure—the interests of justice and the efficient and effective delivery of justice for people—but to the delivery of commitments given by the Government, as part of the political process arising from the Belfast agreement, in consultation and agreement with the Dublin Government and certain other parties in Northern Ireland. In my view, that is not the right and proper way to introduce legislation on such a crucial issue.
Such legislation should not be based on political considerations and political agreements hammered out after hours of negotiations between parties for party political reasons but on what is right and proper for the delivery of a good and effective criminal justice system in Northern Ireland. That should be the guiding principle, yet today, time and again, we have heard contributions that show that the driving force for the measure was Weston Park, the Belfast agreement, the joint declaration and the various reviews that have arisen from those agreements.
That is part of our problem. There is no better illustration of our fears and concerns about the politicisation of the criminal justice system and of the danger of political interference than the driving force for the Bill. We are yet again debating a measure that has arisen from the joint declaration—from commitments entered into by the two Governments and the other parties that agreed the process of negotiations that led to the joint declaration. That is why we are debating this Bill so soon after the 2002 Act—because of commitments entered into as part of the joint declaration.
The joint declaration, flowing as it does from the Belfast agreement process, is part of the attempt by the Governments—indeed, a hallmark of the process since 1998—to buy the acquiescence of certain parties, and the republican movement in particular, through concessions. The Governments want to involve those parties and to get them where the Governments want them, but they are doing that by offering more and more concessions. When those concessions do not work, the Governments offer yet more concessions. That is what the joint declaration is all about.
Throughout that process, events have shown that it does not work—especially recently. Terrorists and those allied to them pocket the concessions, but so far they have demonstrated no willingness to move to exclusively peaceful and democratic means. The reason that there has been such an erosion of public confidence in so many aspects of the political process in Northern Ireland is that, time and time again, concessions given as part of the Belfast agreement process to parties allied to terrorists and paramilitaries have been pocketed, yet those parties have not been prepared to commit to exclusively peaceful and democratic means.
The Tohill incident is but the latest manifestation. The republican movement talks a good game on peace and democracy, yet all the time it remains wedded to violence, to the terrorist machine that is the IRA, to holding on to its stockpile of weaponry and to carrying out crimes in broad daylight on the streets of Belfast, if it can get away with that. That is the issue for the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland and that is what concerns them about the Government introducing legislation such as this at this time. Why do we constantly introduce legislation and take decisions in this place to fulfil commitments arising from the joint declaration, the Belfast agreement and all the rest of it, when it is clear that the republican movement and Sinn Fein in particular are not prepared to commit to exclusively peaceful and democratic means?
Both the Belfast agreement and the joint declaration, in which the Bill originates, envisaged the devolution of policing and justice powers to Northern Ireland. Although devolution of at least some elements of policing and justice is desirable if appropriate institutions and arrangements are in place in Northern Ireland, it would be wholly unacceptable in the context of the current arrangements under the Belfast agreement. Indeed, there is no doubt that devolution of such powers in those circumstances would only make things worse.
Appropriate arrangements may be made at some point in the future; we shall have to wait to see what the discussions and negotiations bring forth. However, I reiterate the point I made to the hon. Member for Newry
and Armagh (Mr. Mallon): the prospect that anyone who is associated with, or inextricably linked to, a terrorist organisation should have any role, or any say or control, in policing or justice in Northern Ireland is wholly unacceptable. However, there is no doubt that the provisions of the joint declaration envisaged that a member of Sinn Fein-IRA could be in that position. Not only would that send a very bad message, it would be a travesty. It would be deplorable not just for the Unionist community, but for the nationalist community as well if someone from that background were put in a position of control over policing and justice. That simply cannot happen. I am reminded of the words of the Minister for Justice in the Irish Republic.
Mr. Mallon: Just to be clear, is the hon. Gentleman in effect saying that, if Sinn Fein cut all its ties with paramilitary groups, got rid of its weapons and ceased kneecappings, its intimidation of people and its racketeering—if all those things ceased—it could not be in the position that he is discussing? We need to be clear. I am trying to derive such clarity from him, and I have no doubt that he will give that clarity now.
Mr. Dodds: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, but we have set out our position very clearly in our recent publications—we have entitled them "the Blair necessities"—and those conditions have been laid down not by the Democratic Unionist party, not by Unionists, but by the Prime Minister and others who have made it very clear that there must be acts of completion: a total end to all paramilitary activity and the disbandment of the IRA, so that it goes away completely and for ever. People in Northern Ireland will have to have confidence that that is in fact what has happened. That must be proved, and we will have to measure that over a period. The reality, however, is that there can be no prospect of our allowing such people into positions of executive power over policing and justice—or, indeed, into any role in executive Government in Northern Ireland. What differentiates us from the Ulster Unionist party and other parties in the House is that we will not tolerate the entry of such people into government in Northern Ireland in this or any other area of responsibility while there is any doubt about their role in terms of the ballot box in one hand and the paramilitary violence in the other.
Mr. Mallon: Could the hon. Gentleman go a little further and say who—what agency, what body—will establish whether paramilitarism had ended, weapons have been got rid of and all the other paraphernalia of violence has ceased? Who will establish that if it is not formally established through a political process?
Mr. Dodds: The hon. Gentleman is talking hypothetically, because there is little evidence at the moment of Sinn Fein-IRA being prepared to commit to exclusively peaceful and democratic means. A judgment will have to be made, but that will be for the people of Northern Ireland, as the Prime Minister said in a response to my hon. Friend the Member for North Antrim (Rev. Ian Paisley) during Prime Minister's questions some time ago. He said that everyone would
have to be satisfied about the acts of completion, and that will have to be measured against the test of whether people in Northern Ireland have confidence and are satisfied IRA violence is over once and for all. We cannot measure that by leaving it to some independent body to establish, by setting it to one side or by defining a set of circumstances or tests. That will be known if and when those circumstances ever come about, and it will be for the people to make a judgment on that at that time. As far as we are concerned, the reality—certainly if the Prime Minister holds to the position that he has set out and others hold to the position that they have set out—is that there can be no role for IRA-Sinn Fein in government in Northern Ireland in the present circumstances.
Mr. Peter Robinson: Does my hon. Friend agree that the satisfaction of the public would be all the greater if those in the IRA do not behave in the mealy-mouthed way that they did last October, when they tried in a convoluted fashion to give the impression that they may have been ending violence and tried putting weapons beyond use in a way that was not transparent? The clarity and quality of what they do will lead to satisfaction in the community.
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