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Mr. Hain: We are always looking to improve the scrutiny of legislation and to address any problems that might arise from time to time. I am sure my hon. Friend will understand that through the introduction of pre-legislative scrutiny, which is an historic move, there is now the opportunity to scrutinise Bills in advance to a greater extent than there ever was. Under the existing rules of procedure and timetabling motions, there is a great deal of scrutiny. It has put an end to the endless filibustering in which we have all indulged in opposition, and focused discussion on the real issues involved in Bills before Standing Committees.
Sir George Young (North-West Hampshire) (Con): What has happened to the Government's Bill to reform the upper House, or is the Leader of the House losing his appetite for constitutional reform? Can he give me an assurance that when we do get the Bill, the long title will be broad enough to permit an amendment in this House to enable an elected element to the upper House, or is this to be another occasion when the views of Back Benchers are marginalised?
Mr. Hain: I have certainly not lost my appetite for constitutional reform—on the contrary. I urge the right hon. Gentleman to hold his horses for a while, and he will find out that the Bill will be published. As to the amendments that will be selected for debate, that is not a matter for me. That is a matter for the Speaker and the House authorities. We shall have to await the publication of the Bill and see what amendments do or do not arise.
Mr. Tom Watson (West Bromwich, East) (Lab): In the spirit of the big conversation, will my right hon. Friend consider a debate on how we involve young people in political parties? Will he also agree to meet the
officers of Young Labour and Labour Students, who were a little taken aback to read of his comments supporting the wholesale reform of their institutions? Is he prepared to distance himself from the comments of his special adviser, who told me yesterday that he thought those organisations were fundamentally undemocratic?
Mr. Hain: As my hon. Friend knows, I have spoken to many meetings of Young Labour and Labour Students throughout the country. I think that they are great organisations. We ought to encourage them and bring them much more into the mainstream of the party. We ought to encourage a better link between Young Labour and Labour Students so that when students leave university, they stay in the Labour party rather than peeling off. I shall, of course, be happy to meet them, although I am not sure that that is a responsibility of the Leader of the House.
Mr. Elfyn Llwyd (Meirionnydd Nant Conwy) (PC): On behalf of my party and my Scottish colleagues, I fully associate myself with the remarks of the Leader of the House regarding the outrage in Madrid. The right hon. Gentleman will know that the Richard report is imminent, and I know that he will be thinking about the way in which it should be debated. There are concerns—legitimate concerns—throughout the House about what may or may not be in the report. Will he consider not only holding a Welsh Grand Committee debate, but securing Government time for a full debate so that all Members representing Welsh constituencies may air their views fully?
Mr. Hain: I shall obviously take full account of what the hon. Gentleman says. As he knows, the Richard Commission report is due at the end of the month. I have no idea, nor does the hon. Gentleman, what its recommendations will be. We have discussed the matter, and I shall take note of what he says and of any opportunities to discuss it. He will understand that it is a report to the National Assembly for Wales, not to the House, although the Assembly, the Welsh Assembly Government and its First Minister, Rhodri Morgan, may well make representations to us following the report as to any changes that might need to be implemented by way of legislation in the House. We shall have to wait for that period before we decide how we handle the matter.
Kevin Brennan (Cardiff, West) (Lab): May we have a wider debate about the financial services industry, particularly the almost daily scandals that are the legacy of an era when laissez-faire went mad, leading to the modern equivalent of the South Sea bubble? Will my right hon. Friend take the opportunity to make it clear that there is a difference between scandals such as Equitable Life and the mis-selling of endowment mortgages, and the issue of the Allied Steel and Wire workers and others in occupational final salary pension schemes? They were compelled to join their schemes, they were never given any sort of health warning, and
they have no means of redress other than the Government. Does my right hon. Friend recognise the difference in that case?
Mr. Hain: Policyholders of Equitable Life and members of pension schemes like that of the ASW workers and many others have been severely short-changed, and in the case of ASW workers, robbed of pensions to which they may have contributed over a period of 30 years and which, after all, are deferred wages. The Government are aware of the scandal that led them to suffer and we are seeking to address it. We have to be careful of the read-across of potentially billions of pounds to claimants right across the field. That is where the difficulty arises.
Mr. Hain: So, as regards Equitable Life, there will be a debate and we will continue to take the matter forward. The shadow Leader of the House makes facial contortions and heckles me from the Front Bench. What does he suggest? Does he suggest that potentially hundreds of millions and billions of pounds are lavished in that way? If so, how does that square with his party's commitment to cut public spending in order to make room for tax cuts? That is the question he will have to answer one day.
Mr. David Heathcoat-Amory (Wells) (Con): As the Leader of the House knows, in a few weeks 73 million people from eastern Europe will get an unrestricted right to come and live and work in the United Kingdom. The Government have very belatedly introduced a requirement that those migrant workers register with the Government. Will he confirm that the office that will administer the new scheme is the same Sheffield office that earlier this week was discovered to be running a covert immigration policy, about which the Minister for Citizenship and Immigration, the right hon Member for Stretford and Urmston (Beverley Hughes), apparently knew nothing? Will the Government organise an early debate on the matter and introduce the regulation governing the scheme so that we can examine it and prevent another immigration scandal?
Mr. Hain: I understand, as my right hon. Friend the Minister for Citizenship and Immigration made clear, that those problems arose in that office without any authorisation from any Minister, senior managers or the director general. Without authorisation from any of those senior figures, guidance was issued locally to staff. I am interested to see that the individual who has now been suspended, and who appeared shoulder to shoulder with the Leader of the Opposition, is reported in The Independent this morning as having sent e-mails to the BBC suggesting that Islamic fundamentalists should
- "be silenced by nuclear weapons".
Jim Sheridan (West Renfrewshire) (Lab): I bring to the attention of my right hon. Friend the recent decision by the Automobile Association to withdraw its only
major operations centre in Scotland, with the loss of 240 quality jobs in my constituency. Will he join me in calling on the company, which is committed to consultation with its employees, to hold a wider consultation with those in the rural communities, whom that organisation uses to advertise its services? The membership should also be consulted before the decision is put into practice.
Mr. Hain: I am sure that the Minister and the Secretary of State will take careful note of what my hon. Friend says. In my view, prior consultation in such circumstances is always not just the wisest, but the only policy that should be adopted.
Mr. Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD): I commend the Leader of the House for the strong and timely sentiments that he expressed earlier in reply to the question from the hon. Member for Castle Point (Bob Spink) about the persecution of Kurds in Iraq.
The right hon. Gentleman knows that those who campaign in Iran for Kurdish autonomy have also suffered persecution and occasionally been put to death. May I therefore draw his attention to the growing public concern in Scotland about the case of three Kurdish refugees in Glasgow, who are entering a life-threatening stage of their hunger strike in protest at the decision to send them back to Iran, where they believe that they will be put to death because they were activists who sought autonomy for Kurdish people in Iran? May we have time next week for a Home Office Minister to explain the Government's policy on the three men?
Mr. Hain: Obviously, the situation is serious and potentially tragic, and the Home Secretary will monitor it closely. However, the hon. Gentleman will understand that to drive down the number of illegal asylum seekers—I do not comment on the case that he raised—the Government have to be vigilant and would come under attack from his constituents, let alone other hon. Members, if we were not.
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