| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Mr. Jamieson: I shall endeavour to sparkle this afternoon, as suggested by the right hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Mr. Forth). I agreed with the points made by the right hon. Member for East Yorkshire (Mr. Knight) at the start of his speech when he said that we want better use of our roads and bus lanes. I did not quite follow his argument about buses in East Yorkshire, however, because when I was last there, I did not see many bus lanes in some of the rural areas—they were mainly in more urban areas. Perhaps he will inform the House where they are. He will know the area far better than I do.
4.45 pm
The arguments that we have had today were well rehearsed in Committee, and I am delighted that we are hearing them again today. Bus lanes are generally provided to enable buses to avoid the queues that occur in congested road networks. The higher carrying capacity of buses means that the lanes make efficient use of road space in terms of moving people, and the quicker and more reliable journey times that follow make buses a more attractive and realistic option, thus further relieving pressure on the road network. The more other vehicles are allowed to use bus lanes, the more the purpose and effectiveness of those lanes is devalued.
New clause 4 would effectively turn all bus lanes into high-occupancy vehicle lanes. It is easy to envisage that bus lanes would become choked by other traffic and that the presence of other vehicles in a bus lane would encourage the drivers of single-occupancy vehicles or those carrying just one passenger to use the lane as well. That would delay buses and lead to enforcement problems.
The right hon. Member for East Yorkshire talked about using new technology such as cameras to enforce bus lanes. Of course, cameras can be used to distinguish
between buses and other vehicles, but there is considerably more difficulty in distinguishing whether a car has one, two or three occupants, as the new clause would require. That is why the enforcement of high-occupancy vehicle lanes in Leeds and south Gloucester relies on a police presence and the ability to stop vehicles apparently contravening the rules. There was a complaint from one lady who had a small child strapped in the back of her car who, of course, was not visible to the police officer from outside the car. There are difficulties and anomalies in trying to enforce such rules.I recognise that, in the right place, high-occupancy vehicle lanes can be an effective traffic management measure, and the right hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst will be pleased to know that, later this year, my Department will be publishing guidance to authorities on the implementation of such lanes. Who knows, in the very long term, when the right hon. Gentleman and I are well retired, there may be a Conservative Government implementing some of these plans.
Mr. Jamieson: I was just coming to the right hon. Gentleman's point about high-occupancy vehicle lanes, but I will give way.
Mr. Knight: We welcome what the Minister said about issuing guidance. Will it be general guidance that, in effect, updates what is now the seven-year-old guidance on bus lanes? The hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mrs. Dunwoody) raised an interesting point. The original guidance referred only to heavy goods vehicles using bus lanes in some cases, and there may be a case for short-run delivery vehicles being included as well. Will the guidance be all-embracing?
Mr. Jamieson: The guidance will relate to high-occupancy vehicles.
I do not have the experience of the right hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst of travelling in the United States of America, but I think that I have travelled on the road outside Seattle to which he referred. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mrs. Dunwoody), I noticed that it was rather wider than even the widest motorways in this country. I noticed also that it had no bus lane but rather a high-occupancy vehicle lane, whereas the new clauses relate to bus lanes, which are mainly in confined urban areas that in no way equate to the great intercity highways of the USA. Interesting though his point was, it does not easily read across to this country.
My hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich made an interesting point about the problem for milk floats and other service providers. The milk float in my area arrives at 4 am, making a considerable noise and usually waking me up at the same time. I accept that there is a problem, because for people who find it difficult to get to the shops those deliveries are a lifeline. Delivery companies also provide employment. She
asked if I would go away and think hard. I certainly shall, as long as she does likewise. I would be happy to put our brains together to find a solution.
Mr. Jamieson: The right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr. Redwood) is offering to join us in a troika to solve the problem.
Mr. Redwood: Has the Minister thought about bus lanes' hours of operation, because milk floats often go out early, so they may not conflict with the frequent service provided by buses? Is it not possible to make the bus lane inoperable early in the morning so that delivery vehicles can use it?
Mr. Jamieson: Again, I find myself agreeing with the right hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst, who is at odds with his Front Bench, as I believe that such things should be decided locally. Local authorities should work with local companies to see if we can accommodate such arrangements. In some areas, bus lanes are not required 24 hours a day, but it is important that local authorities make those decisions. The House will be surprised to learn that I do not favour the big state intervention that the hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr. Chope) advocated—[Interruption.] I see that the right hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst agrees with me.
Mrs. Dunwoody: Before we leave our unfortunate milkman, there is an added hazard when delivery vehicles are subject to a congestion charge. I am afraid that I do not have an instant answer—I wish that I did—but I hope that we can find a way to assist small deliveries. Given the level of petty theft in urban areas, it is not possible to ensure that delivered goods are still there when people get up to collect them. It is a difficult but genuine problem.
Mr. Jamieson: I accept that it is both difficult and genuine. Equally, if milk floats used bus lanes regularly, it could inhibit the flow of buses, and local people would have a view about that. There could also be a considerable hazard—the right hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst said that buses would be weaving in and out of the next lane, which would create safety problems.
Mr. Redwood: I do not know of any place that needs a 24-hour bus lane. Bus lanes are needed only in busy periods when there is a frequent bus service. Outside those hours, buses could easily use the outside lane, because there would not be a great number of other vehicles, allowing delivery vehicles to do their job.
Mr. Jamieson: In certain parts of the country—this is particularly true of London and big conurbations—there are 24-hour bus lanes because buses run 24 hours a day. In the night, there is no need to lift the restriction on using bus lanes because the roads are reasonably clear of cars anyway. The real problem was identified by my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich. We need to address it, along with local authorities and suppliers to see if we can reach an accommodation. I
cannot see an easy solution to the problem, and I do not believe that she can either. It has been drawn to my attention that, in an intervention on the right hon. Member for Wokingham, I referred to cycle lanes rather than bus lanes. I meant that that cycles were permitted to use bus lanes, but he probably inferred that.New clause 6 would require all with-flow bus lanes to be open to use by cycles, motor cycles, taxis and invalid carriages. It is unnecessary for cyclists, who already have a right to use with-flow bus lanes. The Secretary of State's consent would be required if a local authority wished to exclude cycles, but it is rarely requested or given. A small number of bus lanes may exclude cycles for safety reasons, for example where cyclists are encouraged to use a parallel cycle track rather than a narrow bus lane. If it could be provided that there was a cycle track as well as the bus lane, that would be a considerable advantage to the cyclist, but one has only to look at the roads in London and many other urban areas, including my constituency, to see that it would be almost impossible to provide a facility for a bus lane and a cycle track in the available space.
As for motor cycles, taxis and invalid carriages, local authorities have the power to allow other vehicles to use bus lanes if they consider that that would be desirable. We believe that it should be left to the discretion of local authorities to decide whether any other classes of motorised traffic should be allowed to use any of their bus lanes, taking into account their local transport plans and specific objectives in creating those bus lanes. That cannot be done effectively by central Government.
The right hon. Member for East Yorkshire mentioned the guidance on bus lanes in local transport note 1/97, "Keeping Buses Moving". That acknowledges that there are circumstances in which it will be appropriate and desirable for other vehicles to use the bus lanes and gives guidance on assessing the effects on buses and other road users. I stress to the right hon. Gentleman that that is guidance, not instructions, to local authorities. I emphasise for the third or fourth time that it is important that, working within the guidance, local authorities make decisions appropriate to their own circumstances.
Some local authorities have allowed motor cyclists to use bus lanes. That has raised concerns for the safety of other road users, particularly for cyclists and pedestrians. Before revising the guidance, we are awaiting the results of trials in London allowing motor cycles in bus lanes. It would be premature to give an unconditional recommendation that motor cycles should be able to use bus lanes, let alone to give them standard access.
Generally, it is better for invalid carriages to use footways, rather than the carriageway, wherever that is possible. It is not a good idea to encourage such small, low-powered, slow-moving vehicles to use bus lanes. Apart from the danger of their being ridden over because the bus driver cannot see them in his mirrors, moving at a maximum speed of 8 mph they would considerably inhibit the flow of traffic behind them.
The new clauses are not necessary in relation to cyclists, and in relation to the other vehicles, they would undermine the effectiveness of bus lanes by removing the
right of local authorities to decide which other vehicles, if any, should be allowed to use bus lanes. I therefore ask that the motion be withdrawn.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |