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The Prime Minister: Yes. That is exactly what the Conservative party said about the Amsterdam treaty and the Nice treaty, which were also supposed to be the end of Britain as we know it. Those who are now in charge of the Conservative party were the Eurosceptics who caused such difficulties for the previous Government on Maastricht. If we attempted to renegotiate the essential terms of Britain's membership of the European Union, it would be a disaster for this country, and it would put at risk all the gains that Britain has made in the European Union.
Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con): Did the Prime Minister discuss with his European colleagues the excellent suggestion, which he is reputed to have made to President Bush, that monitors from well-disposed countries should be interposed by agreement between Israel and the Palestinian state to stop further death and destruction in that area?
The Prime Minister: I did not discuss those proposals specifically. If there is a chance of getting the process restarted, however, we are looking at how we ensure that the Palestinian Authority can take security measures that give confidence to everybody that what they say they are doing on security is actually done, so that next time there is a suicide bomber or a breach of security, there can be some clear way to determine whether the Palestinian Authority are complicit as they say they are not or not. We will continue to discuss that matter not only with the Americans but with the Israeli Government and others.
Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): It will come as no surprise to the Prime Minister if I say as a long-standing opponent of the Common Market and the European Union, even when the Tories were in power and voting for it that we need this argument like a hole in the head. I am amazed that this matter has been brought forward once again. Is it not indicative that yesterday the author of the new constitution, Giscard d'Estaing, was defeated in the French elections? He has been put out to pasture; I suggest to my right hon. Friend that the best thing we can do with this issue is to put it into the long grass, as well.
The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend has been entirely consistent on this issue from the very outset, but I am afraid that I have to disagree with him. One need only
sit round the table with 25 other states in the European Union to realise that it simply cannot work without changes to the way in which it operates.
Mr. Peter Lilley (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con): But if there were to be a referendum, does the Prime Minister think that he would win?
The Prime Minister: I believe that the vast majority of people in this country think it is sensible that we remain part of the European Union. [Interruption.] No, no. Let us be clear about this. The position that has now been adopted by the leader of the Conservative party is that the Conservatives want to reopen negotiations on the constitution, that they disagree with many of its contents, and that they oppose the idea of having a European Union constitution. So in any debate that takes place in the country, the choice is absolutely fundamental: it is between those who want to renegotiate Britain's essential terms of entry and those who believe that Britain's future lies in Europe. I believe that that is a debate that we can and will win.
Mr. Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): I think that all parties would welcome my right hon. Friend's statement regarding counter-terrorist legislation, the database of forensic material and better intelligence sharing. However, does he agree that the matching pair to go with those measures is an acceptance that there must be a strong European agreement based on principles such as those in the Data Protection Act 1998 to ensure that privacy and data protection are also dealt with on a pan-European basis?
The Prime Minister: In any actions that are taken, it is important that we carefully balance civil liberties with the need to take strong measures against terrorism. Of course, those measures will essentially remain our decision. In so far as we co-operate with other countries in Europe, it is of course important to respect people's civil liberties.
Sir Teddy Taylor (Rochford and Southend, East) (Con): Has the Prime Minister closed his mind completely to the possibility of a referendum on this important treaty? Does he not think that it would create a new sense of unity in all the parties if he let the people decide on this important issue? On a detail, can he at least give me a promise that he will not sign the treaty if any attempt is made to remove article 59 on page 32, which for the first time since the treaty of Rome makes legal provision for countries to withdraw from the European Union if they wish to?
The Prime Minister: What the hon. Gentleman says in the last part of his question is one of the advantages in making that quite specific. Of course, countries can withdraw from the European Union if they want to. That is precisely what the hon. Gentleman and some of his colleagues in the Conservative party want. I
understand and respect that; we simply disagree about it. In respect of the referendum, my position remains unchanged.
Mr. Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab): Is not the real reason why the Prime Minister will not commit the European constitution to the people the fact that he knows that he would lose that vote?
The Prime Minister: No. I believe that in the end, faced with a decision on whether to remain part of the European Union, which is in effect the position [Interruption.] I am afraid that the Conservative party will have to
Mr. Speaker: Order. It is getting to the stage where every time the Prime Minister speaks, certain Members wish to shout him down. There is a danger that I will go on to the next statement and hon. Members will not get an opportunity to question the Prime Minister.
Mr. John Maples (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): Can the Prime Minister think of a single country in Europe where the news of the European Union's failure to reach agreement on the constitution last December was met with public dismay?
The Prime Minister: Across Europe, there was an understanding that we needed to have a change in the European Union, but there is no doubt that some countries for example, Poland and Spain had genuine difficulties with some of the issues. However, I remember being told on 15 December by the Conservative party indeed, possibly by the hon. Gentleman that we should have followed the lead of the plucky Poles and said no to the constitution. It was never the case that anyone else in Europe would say no to the whole document because everybody who is trying to make the EU work knows that a Europe of 25 and perhaps subsequently Bulgaria, Romania and Turkey cannot work in the same way as it does now.
If we want Europe to be effective, we must make the changes. The Conservative party wants not only to renegotiate the terms of the treaty but to renegotiate so that there is no constitutional treaty. That is its position. The reason why I say that that would lead to a fundamental reconsideration of our terms of membership is that no other country in Europe is in that position. We would thus be left with either a fundamental pledge doubtless what many people in the Conservative party want or a swindle because people will not get a fundamental renegotiation of the treaty.
David Winnick (Walsall, North) (Lab): Most would support the Prime Minister's visit to Gaddafi for the reasons that he stated. However, is it not the case that the Libyan regime is brutal, denies all forms of rights and hunts down dissidents, even when they have fled abroad? Did my right hon. Friend discuss human rights with Gaddafi, and what was Gaddafi's response?
The Prime Minister: We certainly did discuss human rights, democracy and freedom. I expressed my clear view that, ultimately, the best guarantor of our security is the spread of those values the rule of law, human
rights and democracy. I do not pretend that things in Libya are as they should be but when a country that has been developing chemical or nuclear weapons for a significant period of time offers voluntarily to give them up, we should be prepared to help it to do that and then to help it develop in a way that hopefully moves towards human rights and democracy.
Mr. Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): Was there any discussion in the European Council or in its margins about financial accountability and management? Does the Prime Minister recall that, last year, the Comptroller and Auditor General asked the Government to apply pressure to ensure that financial accountability was improved in the 10 new states?
Closer to home, was there any discussion about the fact that the European Commission's accounts have been qualified every year for the past nine years? Before we load more functions on the European Commission, does the Prime Minister agree that we must improve its financial accountability?
The Prime Minister: I agree that the Commission's financial accountability should be improved and we are working for that. The same is true of the 10 new member states.
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