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Mr. Woolas:
I said that I would take only one more intervention, but the hon. Gentleman seems so keen to intervene that I shall give way to him, but then I want to proceed with my speech.
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Mr. Tyler: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman.
I am very supportive of the limited proposals, but I am worried by one thing that the Minister said. It sounded as though the first instalment is part of a continuum and that by voting for it we may be committing ourselves to a much more expensive and expansive visitors centre. Will he assure the House that although this is a first step, it will not necessarily lead to anything more than the current proposals before the House?
Mr. Woolas: I thank the hon. Gentleman for what I think was a probing intervention. He is right to ask that question, and I am sure that reading the report will reassure him that we are discussing the first of what I and my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House hope will be two stages and that there is no commitment—
Mr. Woolas: I am sorry to disappoint the right hon. Gentleman, but I hope that there will be a third stage, too. However, I can reassure the hon. Member for North Cornwall (Mr. Tyler).
We are grateful to the Accommodation and Works Committee and the Administration Committee for the speed and thoroughness with which they produced the report. We are also grateful to their counterparts in the House of Lords for their helpful co-operation, as this is very much a joint endeavour of the two Houses.
The Government strongly support the Committees' proposals for a new reception and security building on Cromwell green, and my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House is personally strongly committed to improving the welcome that we give our visitors. It is regrettable, although unavoidable in the current climate, that our visitors should be subject to security screening on arrival, but that must be done in a manner that is welcoming and unobtrusive. We must remember, and demonstrate, that it is their Parliament, not ours. It is not acceptable that people are left queuing in the rain—as is the case currently—often for long periods. It is also important to provide a decent working environment for our staff.
I shall not speak in detail about the report, as I hope that the Chairman of the Accommodation and Works Committee will be able to catch your eye, Madam Deputy Speaker, to explain exactly what is proposed. The report is clearly set out and I especially commend to the House the fold-out plan in appendix 1; I am sure that all Members have looked at it. The House will want to know how much the new building will cost.
Mr. Woolas: I shall tell the House what the costs are. The report states that initial estimates for the capital costs of the new building and the covered walkway
"are in the region of £5 million."
The additional staff required will result in increased revenue costs of about £200,000, which will be divided on a 60:40 basis with the House of Lords.
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Mr. Forth : I hope to go into this in greater detail if I catch your eye, Madam Deputy Speaker but, for the sake of completeness, does the Minister accept that paragraph 32 of the report, which says that costs
"are in the region of £5 million",
"The final figure is therefore likely to be higher"?
Can he give us a clue as to how much higher? He is asking us to sign up to £5 million, but there is an unspecified additional element. Paragraph 34 says that there will be
"a total increase in revenue costs of £200,000 per annum. Some extra costs would also be incurred".
Are we not entitled to be suspicious that we are being sold a pig in a poke?
Mr. Woolas: The right hon. Gentleman reminds me of the news reader who asked a news reporter if he could tell the viewers what the next surprise was going to be. The report is honest. It says what the costs are and allows some flexibility, but the Committees of the House, the House authorities and all hon. Members can scrutinise the matter, just as the right hon. Gentleman is always urging us to do. If we were to be as precise as he implies we should be, he would criticise us equally strongly. The report is clear and honest, and I have been as straightforward as possible in explaining the costs.
The House of Commons Commission and the House of Lords House Committee will oversee the implementation of the project and monitor expenditure and management closely. I emphasise that the Government regard the reception building very much as the first stage. We hope that we will be able to build consensus on proposals for a proper visitor and education centre, with space for exhibitions interpreting our work, for the reception of school parties, and perhaps for a book and souvenir shop. As you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, our education unit does great work, but its facilities and resources are extremely limited. I believe strongly that we must do more to welcome and inform the electors of tomorrow. I accept that it may be difficult to find space for those facilities within the confines of the Palace, but I hope that the House authorities will press ahead with an exploration of options nearby.
Mr. Stephen Pound (Ealing, North) (Lab): I would be more persuaded to support the proposal if I thought that the statue of the butcher of Drogheda would be moved. Will it remain or will we hopefully lose it as a result of the proposal?
Mr. Woolas:
It is not within my power or ability to rewrite history. My hon. Friend's interpretation is colourful, but the Chairman of the House of Commons Advisory Committee on Works of Art, my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Mr. Banks), would have
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something to say about his proposal. Instinct and common sense tell me to duck the question and move swiftly on.
Mr. Woolas: I am not saying, and I do not know.
Mr. Woolas: Does the hon. Gentleman want to give me a history lesson?
Mr. Robathan: As this is a special site listed by UNESCO, I do not think that we would be allowed to move the statue without the permission of the United Nations.
Mr. Woolas: The hon. Gentleman will be complaining about outside interference in the sovereignty of the House next.
I emphasise that the welcome we give our visitors is an important part of the way in which we engage with the public, but it is only a small part. We need to improve the way in which we engage with the majority of our constituents who never visit us in the Palace of Westminster, perhaps because, as in the case of my constituency, they live some distance away. The way in which our proceedings are broadcast and portrayed by the media, our website and the innovative use of new technologies are extremely important as well. The Modernisation Committee is addressing those wider issues, and I look forward with interest to its findings. We must accept that plans for the next stage—for a proper visitor and education centre—will take some time to develop. Our visitors deserve the best service we can give them. I commend the motion to the House.
5.24 pm
Mr. Oliver Heald (North-East Hertfordshire) (Con): I stress, as I did in the previous debate, that the matter before us is for Members—certainly for those on the Opposition Benches—to determine on a free vote. The fact that I am giving a view from the Dispatch Box does not mean that I expect my right hon. and hon. Friends to support me in the Lobby, should we end up there tonight.
Mr. Robathan: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way so soon. I should make it clear, in case he did not realise it, that the Government Whips were drawing Members into the Lobby on the last vote.
Mr. Heald: You would probably complain, and rightly so, Madam Deputy Speaker, if I were diverted back to our previous proceedings.
I join in the thanks to the Chairman of the Accommodation and Works Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (Derek Conway), and to the Chairman of the Administration Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for
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Broxbourne (Mrs. Roe), for their hard work as Chairmen of the Committees that produced this rare joint report.
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