| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Mr. Dodds: I find myself in agreement with much of what the hon. and learned Member for Harborough (Mr. Garnier) has said. In particular, I want to emphasise his point in relation to the interpretation of the phrase "reflective of the community", which should not under any circumstances be taken to mean that appointments to the judicial appointments commission—or any other appointments in this area—should be permitted of those who support the use of violence, intimidation, threats and so on, or who are allied to the republican movement. Especially in the light of the IMC report, as pointed out by the hon. Member for Basingstoke (Mr. Hunter), those sorts of interpretations would be simply unacceptable and totally wrong. The same issues arise in the context of ongoing calls for members of Sinn Fein-IRA to be members of the Policing Board, for instance. If that happened, there would be people in control of the accountability of the Chief Constable and senior police officers who, as we have seen in the IMC report, are still wedded to violence and to carrying out activities on the streets of Northern Ireland through criminality and terrorism. That would simply be unacceptable as far as the people of Northern Ireland are concerned.
Another issue that concerns me in relation to the phrase "reflective of the community" is what we have seen as regards appointments to other public bodies and organisations in Northern Ireland that are supposed to be reflective of the community or, to use the slightly stronger term, representative of the community. I refer to bodies such as the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission, the Parades Commission, the old policing authority and others, which do not in any shape or form
26 Apr 2004 : Column 657
represent or even reflect the viewpoint of the majority community in Northern Ireland. The Minister will be well aware of the complaints and criticisms—
Mr. Peter Robinson (Belfast, East) (DUP): To strengthen my hon. Friend's point, does he agree that it is total hypocrisy to have an organisation known as the Equality Commission that does not have one member who would reflect the view of the largest party in Northern Ireland?
Mr. Dodds: I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. He is absolutely right to point to another organisation, which I have not mentioned. As he says, its title implies that it is aimed at the promotion of the concept of equality, yet it, too, has been widely criticised on the grounds of not representing, or having on it those who would reflect or represent, the majority political viewpoint in Northern Ireland. We must therefore be careful when we address such issues in relation to Northern Ireland.
Judicial appointments should be made on merit alone. As the hon. Member for Basingstoke said in his eloquent contribution, we believe that the Government's proposals would go a long way to undermine the merit principle. We therefore wish to see those elements that would undermine it removed from the Bill today.
5 pm
I hope that the hon. Member for Newry and Armagh (Mr. Mallon) will feel able to agree with our amendment. It seems to me that the logical outcome of what he said would be his joining us in ensuring that, when it comes to appointments to the judiciary, merit should be the only consideration. Towards the end of his speech he spoke of big house Unionists' being appointed, and of people returning from abroad to be appointed. I should be interested to know who he has in mind; I have no idea who on earth he could mean. I note that he did not take an intervention from the right hon. Member for Upper Bann (Mr. Trimble) on that.
The Northern Ireland judiciary are held in high esteem there. They act in the best interests of the community as a whole, as has been shown time and again during the most difficult and challenging periods in the history of the Province. The House would be well advised to accept the amendments, and not to introduce an element of political interference which I think will only damage the process and the confidence of people in Northern Ireland.
Mr. Swayne: I agree with the amendments. I want to concentrate on amendment No. 25, which raises the question of whether clause 3 is necessary. On Second Reading in the other place, Lord Mayhew—in terms echoed today by my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Harborough (Mr. Garnier)—said:
"In five years as Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and four years before that as the Attorney-General for Northern Ireland, I do not recall any serious lack of public confidence in the judiciary every manifesting itself. I suggest that there was a very good reason for that. Throughout the past 30 years, the judiciary of Northern Ireland, appointed as it has been by the Lord Chancellor, has earned a superb reputation for its fairness and
- impartiality, to say nothing of its courage and dedication to the rule of law."—[Official Report, House of Lords, 16 December 2003; Vol. 655, c. 1107.]
What are we trying to fix here?
The key to making the judiciary reflective of the community is encouraging all sections of the community to produce suitably qualified candidates. That is a laudable objective, and if it succeeds it will follow that over a period the judiciary will come to reflect the community that has produced such candidates. That is happening here on the mainland as the judiciary change to reflect the increasing number of female and ethnic-minority entrants to the profession.
This is where we part company with the Government: they would turn a natural expectation into a duty. On 25 March, the Minister said:
"As we are seeing a change in the pool from which appointments are made, do we not expect that change to be reflected in those appointments? We would be surprised if the appointments were not reflective, so it is legitimate to build in a duty for them to be so."—[Official Report, Standing Committee D, 25 March 2004; c. 44.]
I think the Minister is right to expect the appointments to be reflective, but entirely wrong to impose such a duty. Consider that that will inevitably, or at least potentially, compromise the principle of selection on merit alone.
Suppose that, unfortunately, it turns out that the best qualified candidate for a judicial appointment is from that section of the community that is already on balance over-represented in the judiciary, and that those who make the selection, considering the requirement to abide by the provision and their duty to ensure that the judiciary be reflective of the community, go for another candidate—a competent, qualified candidate but not the best candidate. We will then have crossed the threshold from a perfectly legitimate objective to affirmative action. That will have the opposite effect from what is intended in the clause. Rather than building confidence in the judiciary, it will undermine it.
Mr. Spellar: I note the comments of the hon. Member for Belfast, North (Mr. Dodds) about the Equality Commission and hope that, as I have recently invited new applications, he will encourage the widest possible pool of applicants for those positions. We look forward to seeing those.
My hon. Friend the Member for Newry and Armagh (Mr. Mallon) asked us to look at the wider perspective. It is worth while rehearsing the benefits of seeking reflectiveness in public bodies, principal among which is that they tend to reflect the composition of the community around them, which inspires confidence and ensures that good people are not overlooked when recruiting and promoting. Such an approach speaks of fairness and reflects criticism.
It is sometimes said in the advertising world that a good way of assessing an advertisement and whether it is working is to hold up a mirror to it and look at its mirror image. On that principle, we should consider whether we would argue that bodies should be unreflective—a position that would clearly be indefensible. With regard to reflectivity, schedule 2 to the 2002 Act requires the commission to report the following information relating to those who applied and were selected for judicial
26 Apr 2004 : Column 659
office: gender, age, ethnic origin, community background, and that part of Northern Ireland with which they regard themselves as most closely associated. To deal with the query raised by a number of hon. Members, political opinion is not included.
I appreciate that some hon. Members think—it was clear from the debate—that the Government are overplaying the importance of reflectiveness. Let me put it this way. Many people in Northern Ireland have been prepared to dismiss the important and good work of public bodies and public authorities with unfair criticisms. That undermines the bodies' authority. That is a problem that the Government can do something to address.
Let us put to one side the positive merits of a reflective judicial appointments commission. Think of the damage done by criticisms of an unreflective commission—however, unfair those criticisms may be. Let us not give anyone cause to reject and undermine the commission's work. The simplest way to do that is by seeking to ensure within the bounds of what is reasonable and practical that the commission is reflective. It does no harm and it does a positive good.
The hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Lembit Öpik) arrived late as a result of his colleague being held up by fog in Kirkwall and assumed that the Government were responsible. When I was Under-Secretary of State at the MOD and responsible for the Met Office, I carefully claimed credit for good weather at festivals in my constituency. We welcome the hon. Gentleman. He raised the question of the possible arrangements. The Bill is not specific as to what the arrangements may be, but one could envisage that there would have to be meetings or correspondence between those with powers to appoint and to nominate. Almost inevitably, there would need to be some collective consideration of the individuals whom persons were minded to appoint or nominate to see whether that could lead to a reflective commission.
| Next Section | Index | Home Page |