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House of Commons

Wednesday 28 April 2004

The House met at half-past Eleven o'clock

PRAYERS

[Mr. Speaker in the Chair]

MESSAGE FROM THE QUEEN

Double Taxation Relief

The vice-chamberlain of the household reported Her Majesty's Answer to the Address, as follows:

I have received your Address praying that the Double Taxation Relief (Taxes on Income) (New Zealand) Order 2004 be made in the form of the draft laid before your House on 9 March 2004.

I will comply with your request.

Oral Answers to Questions

NORTHERN IRELAND

The Secretary of State was asked—

Decommissioning

1. Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Con): What further progress has been made on decommissioning. [167660]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Ian Pearson): There have been four acts of decommissioning to date. The latest occurred on 21 October 2003, when the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning reported that it had witnessed a third event in which IRA weapons were put beyond use.

Bob Spink : Following the Independent Monitoring Commission report, does the Minister believe that the fine of £120,000 levied against Sinn Fein was proportionate and reasonable, or does he agree with the overwhelming majority of decent people who reject terrorism and believe that the fine was an inadequate way of promoting decommissioning? Does he further agree that simple common sense and decency suggest that the facilities of the House should now be withdrawn from Sinn Fein?

Mr. Pearson: As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State made clear last week, there is no equivalence between these matters. The IMC report recommended that action be taken in terms of either salaries or allowances. My right hon. Friend came to a decision on the matter, and made it plain at the time that the step taken showed how much the House condemns the
 
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activities that have been going on. As for use of the House's facilities, the Government will keep the matter under review, but it is also something for the House itself consider.

Rev. Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): The Minister will remember that something went wrong with the decommissioning process in October. The statement that was due to be made was not made. It was argued among the parties involved that certain promises that had been made and given were not kept. Does not the Minister think that the time has come to announce to the House what those promises were? Why have the general public been kept in the dark about this very important matter?

Mr. Pearson: I truly believe that the time has come to move on. The Government have made it very clear that it is time for all paramilitary activity to cease. Both republican and loyalist groups engaged in terrorist activity must understand that. That is the firm view of the British and Irish Governments, and also of the major political parties and the overwhelming majority of people in Northern Ireland.

Mr. Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich, West) (Lab/Co-op): I welcome my hon. Friend the Minister's comments on that matter. Does he agree that, if confidence in the decommissioning process is to be rebuilt, the total cessation of paramilitary activity by both Unionists and nationalists is absolutely essential? What progress is being made in reducing that activity?

Mr. Pearson: I agree with my hon. Friend. Decommissioning is an important part of the agreement, but more needs to happen. There must also be an end to all paramilitary activity. That is what the British and Irish Governments want, and the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland. All the Government's work is geared to securing a stable and peaceful Northern Ireland.

Mr. David Trimble (Upper Bann) (UUP): The Minister has referred to the IMC report and to the need to make progress. Is not the significant thing about the IMC report not the limited sanctions but the clear and unequivocal description that it gave? Did that not provide a very significant springboard for the Government, and should not the Government have rapidly followed up the IMC report by pressing paramilitaries, and republicans in particular, for those acts of completion? Has not the cancellation of the talks planned for tomorrow and Friday been a huge mistake? In the light of the IMC report, surely the Government must realise that they and others cannot proceed with business as usual as if nothing had happened.

Mr. Pearson: Let us be clear that the intensive talks have not been cancelled; they have been postponed. The two Prime Ministers met last week, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State had meetings with a number of the political parties yesterday, and talks need to continue. The IMC report clearly and graphically demonstrated the level of paramilitary activity that is unfortunately still a regular occurrence in Northern Ireland, but there will be no resolution to this situation, and there will not
 
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be the stable, inclusive institutions that we all want to see, if we do not and are not prepared to get round the table and talk, so we do need to move forward and to engage in talks, and that is what we will continue to do in the coming months.

John Robertson (Glasgow, Anniesland) (Lab): In a democracy the state must have a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence, and the arms of the paramilitary groups must be verifiably put beyond use. Will the Secretary of State and the Minister join me in condemning the latest comments by the president of Sinn Fein that the Independent Monitoring Commission is not really that relevant, and will he remind the paramilitary groups that if they reject the democratic process in this way, the blame for subsequent failure in the peace process will be laid well and firmly at their door?

Mr. Pearson: I believe that the Independent Monitoring Commission is truly independent. It has four distinguished people serving on it, and not one of the many press comments that I have seen responding to its report has really taken issue with the fact that it has produced an accurate report on the current situation in Northern Ireland. We need to keep re-emphasising that all paramilitary activity must cease, and my hon. Friend is absolutely right to point this out and to draw attention to the need for us to move forward on the basis of ensuring that we can eliminate all paramilitary activity. I want to assure him that, as far as the security services and police are concerned, we will do our utmost to continue to bear down on criminal and paramilitary activity and bring the perpetrators to justice.

Mr. Desmond Swayne (New Forest, West) (Con): May I take the opportunity to congratulate the Minister on his thoroughly deserved promotion? It is a matter of great satisfaction. Can he tell us whether it is the Government's policy to use the present improved relations with Libya to discover a full inventory of the arms that were shipped to the IRA? Is that the Government's policy or is it not?

Mr. Pearson: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his words of welcome. From previous meetings that we have had Upstairs, I know that we are going to have a lively time. In response to his question, relations with Libya are clearly a matter for the Foreign Office and I will bring his comments to the attention of the Foreign Secretary.

National Stadium

2. Mr. John Grogan (Selby) (Lab): What discussions he has had about the development of a new national stadium in Northern Ireland. [167661]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Angela Smith): The issue of a national stadium has been around for some time. Recently, however, I invited the Strategic Investment Board to undertake a robust business planning exercise to consider whether a multi-sports stadium to accommodate soccer, rugby and Gaelic games is a long-term, commercially viable proposition. That exercise is
 
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now well under way and there are ongoing discussions with the relevant sports bodies and other appropriate interest groups. I am pleased to report that all three sports bodies are co-operating fully with the exercise.

Mr. Grogan : Given the passion for sport that unites all communities in Northern Ireland, and given the fact that England, Scotland and Wales have managed to combine the development of a national stadium with continued support for grass-roots sport, is not my hon. Friend ideally placed to make her ministerial mark and bring this matter to a conclusion during her time in office? Who knows—they may even name the stadium after her if she does that.

Angela Smith: I urge my hon. Friend to be cautious; the Angela Smith stadium is going a bit too far, but I welcome his persistence and commitment on this issue. There are significant difficulties to be overcome, but the right way forward is to look at the business case, and if a sustainable business case can be made the stadium should proceed.

Mr. Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP): The Minister will be aware that the Maze prison site is a strategic site for the whole of Northern Ireland, and that there are proposals for the development of the site that include a national sports stadium. Will she give the site careful consideration? With the excellent transport links in the vicinity of the Maze site, it would be a first-class location for a national sports stadium.

Angela Smith: I welcome the hon. Gentleman's advocacy for his constituency. The location of any potential stadium is a matter to be debated. It is important to find a neutral site that gets support from all sporting bodies. I shall take his views into consideration.

Mr. Iain Luke (Dundee, East) (Lab): I echo the sentiments expressed. There has been a public consultation on what should be done with the Maze, and many people would like it used for sports purposes. That would be a sign that we were putting the past behind us and celebrating diversity, as was said in the Belfast Telegraph yesterday by Paddy McClean, rather than division, as was the case in the past.

Angela Smith: I welcome my hon. Friend's contribution to the debate, and I am sure that it is welcomed by the hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr. Donaldson). The Strategic Investment Board's case must be considered first, and there are significant difficulties to be overcome, including cost and location. Nevertheless, I welcome my hon. Friend's support for the concept.

Mr. Roy Beggs (East Antrim) (UUP): Does the Minister agree that participation in sporting activity not only helps develop physical fitness and good health, but helps bring about reconciliation between people with different political and religious beliefs and between nations? Will she positively support the provision of a national stadium for Northern Ireland in order to encourage more young people to become involved in sport, and to help them and us promote a better image of Northern Ireland internationally?
 
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Angela Smith: I endorse the hon. Gentleman's comments about the benefits of sport. As the Minister with responsibility for health, I agree about the health benefits for young people as a result of being involved in activity. Until a robust business case has been made, it is premature to make a decision about supporting a national stadium. I am very sympathetic, but the involvement of young people in sport should start, whether there is a national stadium or not. I pay tribute to the work being done by the Sports Council, the Irish Football Association and others to encourage young people to become involved in sport.

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