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Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab): The allegations, if true, shame every single one of us. Preventing abuse requires compliance with rules for the treatment of prisoners. I went to Abu Ghraib prison and the facility at Basra a few weeks ago. Many detainees in Iraq have been held virtually incommunicado under rules that have never been made public. I have been concerned about the general treatment of detainees since June and have made that point over and over.
I have a particular case to raise. An Iraqi woman who was taken prisoner was held for a long time without charge. I went to her house in Baghdad where she told me her allegations of ill treatment. Those allegations were passed on to the appropriate authorities. They did not concern British troops. They were made against American troops. In some cases, such allegations have been proved. I must tell the Minister, who has always been most helpful in assisting me to visit prisons and talk to people in Iraq, that it must be made perfectly clear to the US military, as well as ours, that the Geneva conventions must apply in all cases when prisoners are held.
Mr. Adam Ingram: I pay genuine tribute to my hon. Friend, who has worked more than assiduously on all the tasks that she has just described and more. She is highly respected across the Iraqi civilian population, and rightly so.
On her comments about the United States, I must say that that is not really a matter for the UK Government, although we would be concerned if any coalition partner were in breach of parts of international law to which they had subscribed. There is a process by which we could raise that with them while working alongside them.
Insofar as our own troops and any mistreatment are concerned, I cannot respond to my hon. Friend's detailed points or any other cases that she may have in mind. I should be grateful if she would meet me to go
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through each example and see what we can do to take cases forward. I would be concerned if matters had been reported and not acted on.
Mr. Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con): The Queen's Lancashire Regiment has a base and a museum at Fulwood in Preston. The people of Preston and Lancashire are proud of their close association with the regiment for all the reasons that have been given about its distinguished past service, most recently in Bosnia and Northern Ireland.
Does the Minister agree that it might have been better for the Daily Mirror to pass on the photographs at the beginning so that their veracity and validity could be worked out and an investigation started before allegations were thrown about? Will he assure us that there is a way in which any serviceman or servicewoman is able to complain should he or she believe that any wrongdoing has occurred so that it can be thoroughly investigated? Will he assure us that the current investigation will be speedy and thorough so that the good name of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment can be restored?
Mr. Ingram: I echo those sentiments about the QLR and all the regiments that have served in Iraq and elsewhere in Her Majesty's name. So far as the Daily Record is concerned—[Hon. Members: "Daily Mirror".] Did I say record? What is in the Daily Mirror is a matter of record, so perhaps that is what I had in mind, although the two papers are in the same group. I am grateful to hon. Members for correcting me.
In terms of what the Daily Mirror—I will say it again to make sure that I am not misunderstood—should have done, it must make its own judgment calls. It is currently assisting with the investigation and that is why I said that I hope that it will co-operate fully. These very serious allegations must be fully investigated and that can be done only if people co-operate fully, and that includes the journalists and editors of that newspaper.
The hon. Gentleman also asked about wrongdoing and whether service personnel would feel confident about reporting it. I hope so. Given the scrutiny—the correct scrutiny—of such allegations, and everything that we are doing in Iraq, I hope that all officers in the command chain realise that they have to act with the utmost integrity. I do not question their integrity by saying that, but given the nature of what has happened I am sure that they will encourage full compliance and openness throughout the ranks.
The hon. Gentleman also asked about a speedy and thorough investigation. I can promise a thorough investigation. Speed may be of the essence, but it should not be the priority. We do want to get to the bottom of the matter as quickly as possible, but it is better to get it right than to get it done quickly.
Mr. Gordon Prentice (Pendle) (Lab):
The QLR is my local regiment and has the freedom of the town of Colne in my constituency. I wish to return to a question posed earlier by an Opposition Member. Has the Daily Mail—[Interruption.] I blame the Minister for that slip-up. Has the Daily Mirror been asked specifically if any
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money changed hands for the photographs? That is a central question, which has been asked by several hon. Members, but no answer has been given as yet.
Mr. Ingram: I recognise my hon. Friend's interest in protecting the good name of the QLR, but he cannot have heard what I said. It is not for Ministers to interfere in the minutiae of investigations—[Hon. Members: "Why?"] Well, because if we answer one question, there will be another and then another. I therefore say to hon. Members who may be concerned about the issue that we should let the investigating authorities—the SIB of the Royal Military Police—carry out their actions according to their powers in the matter. The Daily Mirror has been asked by other newspapers—perhaps even the Daily Mail, although not the Daily Record—whether money changed hands. It is a matter for the newspaper. If it wants transparency from the armed forces, it should operate by the same standards.
Mr. Andrew Mackay (Bracknell) (Con): Will the Minister accept that at a time of war the armed forces and Ministers in our free, open society bear special responsibilities, but so do the media? It is especially incumbent on an editor such as Piers Morgan to satisfy himself completely that allegations are correct and photographs are accurate. If they turn out not to be so, will action be taken against him and his newspaper?
Mr. Ingram: The right hon. Gentleman strays into areas for which I have no responsibility. It is a concern that when the press make such charges they can walk away having laid waste to people's reputations. The press have an obligation, but there is another issue. Those allegations have been spread across the Arab world, including Iraq, and the question arises whether lives have been put at risk by what may prove to be unfounded allegations. That should be on the consciences of those who have run such allegations. However, it is not for me to judge whether there would be any legal implications in that case.
Janet Anderson (Rossendale and Darwen) (Lab): While I understand what my right hon. Friend the Minister says about allowing the investigation and any possible legal process to take their course, does he agree that the allegations against the QLR are so serious that, should they prove to be unfounded, the editor of the Daily Mirror should resign forthwith?
Mr. Ingram: I am conscious of the anger that has been expressed, but my focus is on the good name of Her Majesty's armed forces, not on the good name or otherwise of particular newspaper editors.
Adam Price (East Carmarthen and Dinefwr) (PC):
The Minister mentioned the European convention on human rights. Is he aware that a case against the Turkish armed forces, following an incident in northern Iraq, has already been ruled admissible by the European Court of Human Rights? In the light of that, and regardless of the legal opinion, will he not send a positive signal to the Iraqi people that the Government are making a policy decision that article 2 of the convention,
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on the right to life, and article 3, on the prohibition of degrading and inhuman treatment, apply equally to Iraqi citizens and to citizens of the United Kingdom?
Mr. Ingram: I know the hon. Gentleman's position. He has been campaigning on a basis of presumed guilt in some cases, although no doubt he will disagree. The finger of suspicion has been pointed at our forces and we have debated that previously. In relation to the corpus of law that applies in this matter, I hope that the hon. Gentleman is not implying that we do not apply international law with full rigour. The UK has the highest standards in its application of international law and its adherence to the Geneva convention. If any part of domestic law is wrapped up with that, as a result of a judgment, we have to apply that, too. We must carefully consider those parts of the law that are applicable and those that may or may not have import. That is a matter for best legal advice.
I know that the hon. Gentleman has come to a conclusion. I do not know whether he is a lawyer or whether he has taken legal advice—his opinion may be political—but I prefer to wait and see the argument in the round.
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