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Mr. Caplin: Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that what he proposes from the Dispatch Box is now official Conservative party policy? In the likely event—I should say the unlikely event that the Tories ever return to power, will the policy be implemented in their first manifesto?
Mr. Howarth:
I am afraid that the Minister got it right first time. It is likely that we will assume office next year, but I do not want to be too partisan as there is genuine
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consensus across the House on some of these matters. Of course I speak on behalf of the Opposition, and my argument is that the people involved deserve to be shown some consideration.
For the benefit of people outside the House, I want to make it clear that the Minister has not addressed the serious issue that is at stake. He has chosen to cut the cake in a certain way, with the result that the people about whom I am speaking have been carved out. They are deeply resentful, and do not feel that they should have been treated in that way.
The Conservative party is not in government at the moment, and I do not know the state of the books, but I can tell the Minister that I will not be browbeaten or intimidated into saying that we would not help those people. On behalf of the official Opposition, I say that we will do our level best, when we return to government, to find ways of helping these people. That is not a spending commitment, as I do not know how much money is involved. Frankly, the truth is that the Minister does not know either. He cannot tell the House how much money is involved in dealing with these people, and neither can I. Therefore, the basis of his question to me is entirely specious. However, the Opposition believe that these splendid people should be helped and supported.
New clause 8 deals with post-retirement marriages. When people die who married after retirement from the services, their widows, in certain circumstances, are not eligible for a pension. Pensions for widows of post-retirement marriages were introduced on 6 April 1978—I think that that was the last time that the Labour party was in government—to comply with the Social Security Pensions Act 1975. However, the change benefited only those serving at that date, and only service from that date qualified. The review of the armed forces pensions announced last September introduced full dependants' benefits for unmarried partners, with effect from 6 April 2005.
Special factors undoubtedly apply to service personnel who are not applicable to any other group of public or private sector workers. The pattern of service life militated against early marriage. Service people were stationed abroad for long periods, with limited opportunities to meet suitable potential future spouses. They therefore tended to marry later, often after having completed distinguished military careers.
For officers, early marriage was formally discouraged up to 1973, through the denial of allowances and quarters. The strains on marriages of enforced separation and exposure to danger also probably led to the incidence of divorce being higher in the armed forces than elsewhere. The services' normal retirement age of 55 is well below the norm of 60 or 65 elsewhere, and the vast majority of service people are forced to retire at or below 40 because of service manpower policy. In consequence, the probability of service people marrying for the first time, or for a subsequent time, after leaving the armed forces was, and remains, higher than elsewhere.
At yesterday's meeting, it was interesting to hear one lady say that she had received letters from a number of people who had decided not to get married during their service careers. The reason was that they knew that part of their contract with the nation was that they had to put
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their lives on the line. They did not want to have the responsibility of getting married and then leaving their families with less than adequate provision in the event of their death. It is not an academic argument: it is supported by fact.
The post-retirement marriage pension rules bear heavily and unfairly on the armed forces whose unique conditions of service, as we all know, make them a special case. Serving personnel continue to be uniquely disadvantaged by the pattern of their employment, which is not the case in other public sector schemes and marks them apart as a special case. I hope that the Minister will look favourably on the matter. He heard some of the forceful arguments that were advanced yesterday. I thought that they were persuasive and I hope that the Government will accept the new clauses.
4.45 pm
Joyce Quin (Gateshead, East and Washington, West) (Lab): I first became interested in the issue covered by new clause 8 through the situation of a constituent who had married a serviceman who had retired from the service before 1976 and therefore fell foul of the subsequent changes, which were welcome in other respects but did not benefit her. Some cost would be involved in making the changes retrospective and I wondered whether my hon. Friend the Minister had any recent estimates of the likely cost. His predecessor wrote to me a couple of years ago and suggested a figure of £50 million. The number of people in such circumstances is likely to have fallen, and it would be useful to know whether any estimate has been made more recently.
I do not wish to pre-empt my hon. Friend's response, but if he does not envisage a change in the law to allow retrospective claims, I wonder whether individual cases could be considered on grounds of hardship. The constituent I mentioned lives in straitened circumstances and I know that her late husband would have wanted her to have benefited from his pension. There are probably other hardship cases that should also be considered sympathetically.
Mr. Hancock: I wish to associate myself and my colleagues with new clauses 7 and 8. There can be few hon. Members who have not dealt with this issue at some stage in their parliamentary careers. The right hon. Member for Gateshead, East and Washington, West (Joyce Quin) mentioned the possibility of considering individual cases on hardship grounds. I have tried to make that happen in the past 20 years, but there is no flexibility in the system. Under the present regulations, the MOD cannot make payments to help widows of service personnel who do not fit the criteria for the receipt of pensions. Unfortunately, those widows have had to fall back on the good offices of the British Legion or other service-related charities for hardship grants.
We are trying to give justice to those few people who were denied justice when the legislation was changed in the 1970s. New clause 8 would go some way towards doing so and the cost would be nowhere near the £50 million that was envisaged two years ago. The number of people who might be affected has diminished considerably in that time.
New clause 7 would rectify the injustice faced by widows of those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of this nation. The costs involved are already
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accounted for, because if the widow receiving a pension did not remarry, the MOD would have to continue to pay it. It is only when she marries that the MOD benefits. New clause 7 would merely put right a wrong that most of us have come across in our constituencies. Whether we are in government or opposition we have told our constituents that we sympathise with their case and will take it up. It is a question of natural justice and this is our opportunity to put it right. I am delighted to be associated with the new clauses and I hope that the Minister will welcome and support them.
Mr. Caplin: I begin by telling my right hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead, East and Washington, West (Joyce Quin) that the costs that she was given by my predecessor remain, broadly, the same. I shall be more than happy to receive written details from her about the individual case that she mentioned, to see whether the Department can offer her constituent any assistance. That offer is open to other Members, and the number of letters that I sign shows that they take it up regularly—many such Members are in the House this afternoon.
The proposed new armed forces pension scheme includes provision for non-attributable widows' and widowers' pensions to be paid for life. Existing members can transfer to the new scheme if they want to benefit from that provision. The proposed new clause would cover existing widows and widowers who are not provided for—I accept that—in the new scheme.
In the majority of public service schemes, non-attributable widows' and widowers' pensions cease on re-marriage but, as in the armed forces current scheme, can be reinstated on second widowhood or divorce if the individual is otherwise worse off financially than when first in receipt of their armed forces pension. Although we are able to make changes for the future under the new armed forces scheme, which, as I think the House now understands, will be paid for by adjusting benefits elsewhere, the change under the new clause would carry with it no offsetting saving. I have been working hard to ensure that I could give the hon. Member for Aldershot (Mr. Howarth) some figures on the policy that he has just been announcing—he said that he was speaking for the official Opposition and that it was their policy. The cost of his retrospectivity proposal in year 1 would be £500 million, but I hear what he said about the Conservative policy and I shall return to it shortly.
I shall speak briefly on new clause 8. It relates to rules for the current armed forces pension scheme, which are set out in prerogative instruments rather than in primary legislation. The new clause relates to widows who did not receive a widow's pension if their husbands served before 1978 and the marriage took place after their husbands left service. I accept what Jenny Green said yesterday at the event attended by the hon. Member for Aldershot and me, but that is how the armed forces often operated in those days. If I were to accept the new clause, such people would be provided with a pension from the date of introduction of the new scheme, but that would not include the widowers of post-retirement marriages.
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The new clause proposes that the pension should be based on the length of service and final salary, as under the new scheme. However, the current scheme provides benefits, as the hon. Gentleman is well aware, based on representative pay and reckonable service.
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