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Mr. Michael Weir (Angus) (SNP): We in the Scottish National party and Plaid Cymru find the Bill to be very much a curate's egg. There are elements in it that we are keen to support, but there are others that we have concerns about and that we shall wish to consider at later stages.
The Bill is very important for Scotland because, despite what has been said about the future of electricity generation in the United Kingdom as a whole, we are a net exporter of electricity. We generate on average 26 per cent. more electricity than we need at peak capacity. We have a clear diversity of supply with ample natural resources, but we also have nuclear power.
The establishment of the nuclear decommissioning authority is welcome in principle, but we have concerns over the particulars of the arrangements. Overriding these concerns is the fact that the Bill contains no statement on the agency's environmental principles. We believe strongly that environmental principles should be at the heart of the agency's operations, but we note that clause 12(2) states that the NDA must adhere to certain principles, including promoting competition and securing value for money. However, the clause states that the agency must only have regard to
"the need to safeguard the environment".
That provision is not strong enough.
It seems to us that money and competition will be at the heart of the agency, while environmental concerns will be a mere add-on. That seems to be the wrong way round. A set of environmental principles should be enshrined in the Bill. Indeed, the protection of the environment and the health and safety of the population should be the Bill's central plank as it undertakes the clean-up of our nuclear sites, many of which, I remind the House, have a less than glorious record on safety and, indeed, on keeping records as to exactly what nuclear waste is stored where.
We are also concerned about how the Bill relates to Scotland. It merely says that the Secretary of State will be required to consult Scottish Ministers. Perhaps the Minister will elaborate on the Executive's powers. What will they be able to do if there is an attempt to establish a new nuclear waste site within Scotland? Would that be part of the agency's work or would it be covered by previous legislation?
We also have concerns about whether the Bill would have the effect of allowing new nuclear build. The wording of the provisions relating to the Government's obligation to pick up the bill for British Energy's liabilities may allow for future private nuclear companies to be bailed out for their waste and decommissioning liabilities. That could provide an incentive for new nuclear build, something that is completely off the agenda at the moment because of the huge costs and risks to any commercial developer.
In an intervention on the Secretary of State, I asked specifically about the thinking behind clause 82. The explanatory notes refer to
"circumstances where British Energy has sold one of its nuclear power stations to a third party, the acquisition of the power station from that third party and subsequently operating it."
In other words, the Bill gives the Government the power to use taxpayers' money to buy and operate nuclear power stations from a third party. There is little difference between that and nationalising a nuclear power station. It seems to fly in the face of the Government's steadfast refusal to countenance clause 1, inserted in another place.
The point is important because there is a danger, as has been mentioned, that the UK faces an energy gap if we do not do more to ensure that alternative energy resources work and provide the claimed amount of electricity. We are opposed to nuclear power, but we must be aware that the UK Government have a target—perhaps I should call it an aspiration—of producing 20 per cent. from renewables by 2020. The Scottish Executive have a target of 40 per cent. There will have to be a much more serious plan to invest in renewable resources, and the serious investment to go with it, if we are to have a chance of meeting those targets.
We have to be completely honest and recognise that much of the argument about renewables is theoretical. What is not entirely clear is whether such systems can produce enough energy and whether it is economically viable. It seems to us that those questions can be answered only when we are in a position to test much larger systems and when many of them are on line. That will happen only if there is a considerable increase in investment in such energy.
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Scotland's supplies of gas and oil give it an immense advantage and opportunity that we can utilise while building up renewables, although it might also mean—I have to be honest about this—backsliding on the Kyoto agreement until renewables are on line. Scotland has a huge opportunity to be at the forefront of the expansion of renewable energy. In a report for the Scottish Executive—"Scottish Renewable Resource 2001"—Gerry Hassan said that Scotland has 25 per cent. of Europe's potential for renewable energy, and the potential capacity to produce 75 per cent. of the UK's electricity needs from renewable resources. That is a tremendous opportunity, but only if the investment is in place.
It has been explained that almost all energy from wind and wave is generated from onshore wind farms. It is quite clear, as has also been mentioned, that those methods are met by a great deal of opposition from the general public. It is clearly not realistic to propose that all wind farms be allowed planning permission irrespective of local conditions, size and positioning. It is also quite clear that onshore wind alone has no chance of meeting renewable targets.
There is an enormous potential for other forms of renewable energy in Scotland. Hydro is one example. When it was first introduced in Scotland after the second world war, it was said that it would be too cheap to metre. That never came to pass, and we should not make ridiculous claims for any form of energy. To put that into perspective, although offshore wind farms are being built—we have heard about one or two of them—Scotland has only one wave-generation plant, which is a small-scale project on the island of Islay. The year 2020 is not that far away, and if we are serious about renewables we must be prepared to invest not only in the plant itself, but in the grid required to transmit the energy. Much of the potential for wind and wave power is in relatively remote areas where the national grid does not run or does not run at a sufficient strength. I suspect that our target can be achieved only by public investment. We should not shy away from that. Public investment built the grid in the first place, and massive amounts have gone into nuclear energy.
The Bill establishes a framework for offshore wind farms, which is welcome, but costs will become a serious issue. I draw hon. Members' attention to an article in this week's Scotland on Sunday under the headline "Green will Make us see Red when power bills soar". The cost of energy from renewables will become a serious problem. We must ensure that we address that problem and the costs that have arisen from nuclear energy. We must be clear that there is a huge environmental cost if we do not go down the renewable route, although in the short term there may well be an increase in costs to the consumer.
The last part of the Bill deals with BETTA. We have also heard much about the new electricity trading arrangements. The Public Accounts Committee said that residential customers have not seen much benefit from NETA, and there is much fuel poverty in Scotland and elsewhere in the UK. That will have to be addressed before we can go down that route completely. There are concerns about the postage-stamp principle for consumers in remote areas, such as the highlands and islands, because of the cost of transmitting electricity there. Clause 180 partly addresses that concern, but only
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for a short time. The problem could become huge in rural areas throughout the UK if BETTA goes ahead. We must consider that matter in Committee to ensure that rural consumers are protected. There are also concerns about access to the grid from generators, and the costs involved. Those, too, can be pursued in Committee.
7.37 pm
Mrs. Gwyneth Dunwoody (Crewe and Nantwich) (Lab): Any energy Bill that concerns the House of Commons is obviously a matter of great urgency, but it is clear from the breadth of the debate that there are concerns within the UK about our energy policy. Will we have security of supply? How can we address the problems of renewables? Are we concerning ourselves enough with the amount of research that needs to go into new technology? We have heard about the possibilities of renewing the coal industry. We know about renewables from biomass. We also know that there are many things that the Government can do to secure the future of the electricity supply. However, I want to draw hon. Members' attention to a much narrower, but to me a rather more important, point. I hope that I am forgiven if I get straight down to the practicalities.
The Bill contains provisions for wind farms offshore. That is not a new subject and has been considered ever since the Harold Wilson Government when Professor Zuckerman did an enormous amount of interesting and important research. The Secretary of State told us that there had been many hours—75, I think—of debate in another place. However, throughout that time there was no acknowledgement of one simple fact: if we build very large turbines and give permission for the development of very large turbines throughout a large site of a number of nautical miles—in one case, in the second round, a site as large as the city of Nottingham—we are creating an instrument of some importance. I was therefore astonished first, that the Department for Transport was not involved in the steering group that produced the policy, and secondly, that when the steering group was set up, it was some time before the Maritime and Coastguard Agency was consulted, and many other important sectors of the shipping industry were not even allowed to contribute to the development of the plans.
The Transport Committee was so concerned that it looked urgently at that matter. We discovered that a number of practical problems presented themselves immediately. It is clear from the maps for the first round of wind development that the areas are quite small and are nearly all within the 12-mile limit. The second round is nothing of the kind: it is permission for the wind industry to move in on very large sites. Interestingly, the Department of Trade and Industry appears to be reproducing mistakes made by the Department for Transport. When the Strategic Rail Authority simply said to people in the rail industry, "This is the kind of area that you should be looking at", but did not make it clear which particular part, it caused considerable difficulty. The second round of bids for wind farms appears to be the same thing.
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We said that we could not understand why the two most important bodies, the Department for Transport and the MCA, did not insist on being represented on the steering group. Our other concern was that
"every one of the strategic areas is on the approach to a major port or ports."
We were told that the London Array site on the Thames
"blocks one of the three access channels into the Thames. It goes right across the mouth of the Fisherman's Gat".
One of the sites in Liverpool bay will disrupt the ferry service between Heysham and the Isle of Man, imposing delays of half an hour on each crossing and considerable extra fuel costs. The best point, however, was in the evidence from the National Union of Marine, Aviation and Shipping Transport Office—NUMAST—given by a master who had been at sea for over 30 years. He said that the proposed site in the Humber was
"located at a very busy junction where there are three vessel traffic separation schemes converging for traffic entering or leaving the Humber along with coastal traffic making their routes north and south."
Perhaps we could just take on board what that means: it is a convergence of routes. The Humber at Immingham, for example, is the place from which, every day, we export many thousands of cars on very large container ships. If anyone is unsure what I am talking about, let me make it quite clear: when one is standing on the quay, some of those container ships are 300 or 400 ft above one's head, so I am talking not about a small vessel but about one that could get into very real difficulty if wind and wave power such as exists already manages to slam it into a pylon. I may be unduly being a Cassandra, but it might be a matter of considerable concern if Christmas day were enlivened by a news broadcast announcing that at least one large container ship was wedged between two or three pylons in the North sea, yet as far as I can see the shipping industry was told, "Don't worry. We will look at your problems but we are not necessarily going to take any notice of them."
The problem goes further: the structures interfere with radar. They interfere not only with the RAF's aircraft systems but with ground-based systems used for security purposes, so there is a very real problem. We might not know who is approaching our shores in difficult situations. The structures also pose problems for vessels at sea, as they can distort their controls.
Let us be clear what we are talking about. We need details in the Bill about the procedures to be followed in the event of a collision between a vessel and a wind farm. We must remember that some vessels are crewed by people whose qualifications and experience were not gained in the United Kingdom. The Committee believes that at some point a major problem such as a collision is inevitable, and we must have plans in place to deal with that.
We think that it is important to consider the creation of safety zones around every one of these pylons and to have particular identification of sites that will not compromise the integrity of the consent process. We are astonished that the DTI is talking about all this in a very relaxed way, and we think that any installation that goes ahead must be shown not to compromise the safety of navigation. Why were Trinity House and the General Lighthouse Authorities not consulted much earlier?
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Why have we heard the suggestion, even tonight, that opposition to the practical difficulties is based not on knowledge from the shipping industry but on some extraordinary hang-up about the development of alternative fuels?
I want to see this country capable not only of securing its supplies for the future, but of securing them from such a wide selection that we are able to ensure that we never again have the situation that existed after the last war, when we frequently lost power. When one thinks of the number of developments in manufacturing and domestic affairs that have occurred, one sees how important that is. But the Department has to take this seriously: the Select Committee report is not an amusement; we did not write it to entertain ourselves. If we ignore these matters now, the results could be horrendous.
7.46 pm
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