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Sir George Young (North-West Hampshire) (Con): I invite the Leader of the House to reflect on his rather dismissive response to my hon. Friend the Member for North-East Hertfordshire (Mr. Heald), who asked for a full-day's debate in Government time on Iraq. Of course we welcome a half-day Opposition debate on Monday, when two or three Opposition Back Benchers might get called, and of course we welcome the statements that have been made. But does he agree that these are no substitute for a balanced, measured full-day debate in Government time on an issue that is dominating political discussion at the moment? Will he give an undertaking that, before the end of June, the Government will provide a one-day debate in Government time on Iraq?
Mr. Hain: I will certainly look at that point because I understand the concerns expressed by the right hon. Gentleman, which are probably shared across the House. The shadow Leader of the House said much the same thing on Iraq. If we judge that such a debate is the right thing to do, we will have no hesitation in having it, and his request will be noted carefully. You will agree, Mr. Speaker, that, on a variety of occasions over the past year, the Government have come forward with statements and opportunities for debate. If we judge that another is needed, we will arrange it.
Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab):
Is my right hon. Friend aware that if we get the proper amendment to the Pensions Bill next week, not only will it affect workers at
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ASW in Wales and Kent and at other places—including Anglo United in Bolsover—but he will not need to worry about getting additional support from the Tories in the Lobby? He can rest assured that there are enough of us on this side of the House who will give a great welcome to such an amendment because we have been fighting for one for so long, unlike the Johnny-come-latelies in the Conservative party who, were they in power, would not be able to pay for the amendment because of their cuts?
Mr. Hain: I agree with my hon. Friend. The Opposition cannot have it both ways. They cannot plan for cuts in public spending while expecting to fund every particular need that exists. My hon. Friend is right; the plight of the ASW workers is disgraceful—
Mr. Hain: I think that 60,000 are affected. Everyone in the House, including the Government, wants to deal with the problem and my hon. Friend's point has been noted. We in the Cabinet are only too well aware that there is an amendment that has a lot of support and we want to proceed on an all-party basis. To deal with the point made by the hon. Member for North-East Hertfordshire (Mr. Heald), a series of Government amendments are being tabled to the Pensions Bill today and I hope that his request will be satisfied in full.
Mr. Edward Garnier (Harborough) (Con): My constituents who worked for British United Shoe Machinery will have listened with interest to the exchange that the Leader of the House has just had with the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner), because they know that £500 million a year was taken out of the pensions system, thanks to the work of his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
May we have an opportunity, in Government time, to debate the aviation White Paper? This matter has been mentioned before, and it affects my constituents because of the uncontrolled expansion of East Midlands airport. The Government seem to be demonstrating a reckless complacency about the activities of the airport, which seems to be attempting to increase by many hundredfold the numbers of flights going into and out of it. We learn about the increases by stealth. A Government Minister ought to get a grip on the issue and I urge the Leader—he has responded sympathetically to me in the past about this, for which I am grateful—to invite his colleagues from the Department for Transport to get a grip on the stealth-like expansion of East Midlands airport.
Mr. Hain:
I acknowledge that the hon. and learned Gentleman has raised the issue before, as he was kind enough to remind us, and he is concerned about it. The Secretary of State for Transport is well aware of his concerns, and when there is an opportunity to take forward the Government's policy on the aviation White Paper and the response to it—we are collating the responses to it, including, I hope, a response from the hon. and learned Gentleman—we will be in a position to do as he says and have a debate. On pensions, there is
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cross-party desire—Government and Opposition—to do something about the workers in this difficult position. [Hon. Members: "When?"] I am getting another heckle from the Back Benches. It will be done when it can be done in a way that gives proper protection to the workers, but does not expose the taxpayer to potentially billions of pounds of claims from all sorts of schemes across the board. That is the issue, and a responsible Chancellor and Government are approaching it in a responsible way, while wishing all the time to protect the rights of the workers involved.
Llew Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): I am sure that the Leader of the House, in his other role as Secretary of State for Wales, will have read early-day motion. 1170 regarding the financing of further education in Wales.
[That this House welcomes the record-breaking monies provided by the UK Labour Government to the Welsh Assembly; notes with concern that Welsh further education colleges are facing an estimated deficit of more than £3 million this financial year, including £660,000 for Coleg Gwent which cannot protect jobs without extra money; further notes that 45 lecturers and technicians at Coleg Gwent will be made redundant and that college departments in some of the most deprived areas will be closed and transferred to other campuses; recognises that the poor state of public transport in the area will make it difficult for students to be able to attend at other college campuses; further recognises that the situation will get much worse unless Education and Learning Wales (ELWa), which has frozen core funding provision for further education in Wales, reviews next year's budget with the aim to fund for growth in student numbers; believes that in this context the threat to access to further education in Wales is created by the Assembly and the quango, ELWa; recalls the commitment to make a bonfire of these bodies in Wales; demand the Assembly carry out this commitment; believes that the management structure of the further education colleges be reviewed and that decisions over the functions and funding of further education in Wales be taken by directly-elected representatives; and calls on the First Minister, the Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning in the National Assembly for Wales and the Secretary of State for Wales to intervene to protect jobs, courses and campuses.]
Further education colleges are now facing a debt of £3.5 million, and my own, Coleg Gwent, has been left with a debt of £660,000 by the previous chief executive. The Leader of the House will be aware that redundancies at Coleg Gwent have just been announced and that departments have been closed and transferred to other parts of the old county of Gwent. Is it possible to have a debate on this issue? My community has the highest levels of unemployment and the most deprivation, and has lost a significant proportion of its manufacturing base in the last couple of years. It is now faced with the closure of the engineering department at its main further education college. That is unacceptable, as is the closure and transfer of other departments, such as catering, and other courses.
Mr. Hain:
My hon. Friend is right to raise an issue of importance to his constituency and to the whole of Gwent. He raised it with me yesterday and, as a result, I have been in touch with the National Assembly. I am
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astonished that the situation has occurred because the Government have been injecting hundreds of millions of pounds into further education colleges, not just in Wales but across the country. That ought to enable colleges to expand, as many are doing. In my constituency on Friday, I opened a new £6.5 million electronic learning centre, and such things are going on right across the country as we raise skills levels. It is surprising that the predicament that my hon. Friend describes has occurred.
Pete Wishart (North Tayside) (SNP): Could we have a statement about the claims made by Martin Sixsmith in last Sunday's The Sunday Times, namely, that the Government changed the competition policy to save the Govan shipyard because they were running scared of the SNP? Is not the lesson from this that if new Labour is only prepared to take action to protect Scottish interests because of the SNP, the Scottish people should crank that pressure right up in the June European election?
Mr. Hain: I understand that Mr. Sixsmith has written a novel.
Mr. Skinner: He's bought a big new house as well.
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