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Madam Deputy Speaker: I call Mr. Wicks.
Mr. Tynan: On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I understand that we are on Report, and that the situation is that if a speaker is on their feet, they are entitled to be called during the debate.
Madam Deputy Speaker:
I am afraid that that is incorrect. I am sorry to have to disappoint the hon. Gentleman. Mr. Malcolm Wicks.
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Malcolm Wicks: We have had a good debate, and no doubt we can return to some of its themes on Third Reading. Obviously, not everyone has been able to make their contribution and I know that many would have liked to do so. For example, I see my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Richard Burden), who brought a delegation of Kalamazoo workers to see me, which very much informed our speeches. We have just had a useful contribution from my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich, West (Mr. Bailey). I do not think that I can even refer to every speaker in the time available, and certainly not to every point raised, although the debate has been good on both sides.
The shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, who I know cannot be here nowhe sent me a note to that effectrather reminded me, given some of the debate, of the old adage that failure is an orphan but success has many parents. I should not want to prejudge the PhD thesis that will one day be written about this era of policy development, with or without the official papers, but as long as the PhD student is not being supervised at Bath university by a well-known professor, I shall look forward in my own old agewhen I am receiving the £100-plus winter fuel allowanceto reading that thesis. However, the idea that the parent of this provision could possibly be the Leader of the Opposition is an extraordinary one. If anyone dare advance that claim to parentage, I will demand a DNA test immediately.
I should emphasise that right from the start of this process we have adopted the difficult but honest position of saying that we could offer no false hope; indeed, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has been straight with people all along. This is not a U-turn, as some have said. We have had to be cautious from the start. We have had to look at the evidence and to listen to ideas, and I am delighted to be able to introduce this assistance package. Purely for accuracy's sake, I should point out that if anyone can claim credit for this package, above the many other voices that we have heard, it is the Secretary of State. From the start, he has been absolutely determinedalbeit cautiously, so that we do not raise false hopesthat we should do something if at all possible, and I pay tribute to him today.
The shadow Secretary of State asked various questions. Some of them concerned the detail, which we cannot provide at this stage. We will have discussions with stakeholders, including the trade unions, and it is important that we do so. We have talked about the scale of assistance constituting a significant or substantial proportion of pension rights, and we cannot go further at this time.
Although the shadow Secretary of State did raise some serious issues, his introduction drew rather more on the tittle-tattle of the Sunday newspapers than this important occasion deserved. He moved somewhat off course when he referred to alleged comments by me on the pension protection fund and pension rights. Those who read our proceedings in Committee will discover that we made it absolutely clear what those rights are. We had to introduce qualifications into the Bill, because in extremis one has to make provisions. There is a serious possibility that the shadow Secretary of State summarised my approach to this issue in a manner that was not very useful.
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It was unfortunate that the shadow Secretary of State made somewhat patronising remarks about ASW workers celebrating the announcement of this assistance scheme. I, too, saw those scenes on television, which were touching and moving. At long last, their campaign, alongside that of others, has brought the results that our Department has doggedly worked towards.
Miss Anne Begg (Aberdeen, South) (Lab): Workers in my constituency who lost out because of the collapse of the Richards pension fund were also pictured celebrating, on the front page of my local evening newspaper. This is a major breakthrough and the Government deserve to be congratulated on it.
Mr. Dennis Turner (Wolverhampton, South-East) (Lab/Co-op): Will my hon. Friend give way?
Malcolm Wicks: Yes, but it might be the last time.
Mr. Turner: I should like to add the congratulations of workers at GKN Thompson Chassis, in Bilston, which is in the black country. They welcome this measure as we welcome the flowers in May, and they thank the Secretary of State for his intervention and for the initiative he has taken.
Malcolm Wicks: I always welcome good news from Wolverhampton. We need to look at the detail and we shall of course do so, but such workers were celebrating an important advance, excellent parliamentary representation on their behalf, and a Labour Governmentbe it old or newwho are delivering.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field) started off by praising Ministers. I always reach for my flak jacket when he does that, because with all due respect, I see what is coming. However, he asked some important questions, and rightly so, about which people might be covered by the provision, and about the time scale and dates. We have listened very carefully to his comments, which are based on experience, as well as to those of other colleagues. He will note that the new clause is a deliberately broad enabling provision that that omits any mention of particular dates. We will want to draw on clear principles of fairness when looking at the practicalities. I have explained the process through which our proposals are drawn up, and I repeat that we shall consult my right hon. Friend and others about these important details.
Mr. Frank Field: What the Minister has just said could affect all the amendments to the new clause. The labour resource centre received a Government briefing that gave specific dates on which the provision would and would not apply. Was that briefing merely by way of illustration, or did it reflect the Government's view?
Malcolm Wicks:
It indicated our thinking on this issue. I said what I just said very deliberately, and as I have also pointed out, the provision will need to bear some relation to the Pensions Act 1995. I hope that that has reassured my right hon. Friend, and that he will consider withdrawing his amendments.
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At one stage, the hon. Member for Northavon (Mr. Webb) almost seemed to suggest that this assistance constitutes charity or sympathy. There is nothing wrong with sympathy, but it butters no scones: it needs to be followed by action, and it is being followed. Alongside considerable existing scheme assets and any money that we can hopefully draw in from industry, this proper assistance scheme will provide a significant proportion of pension rights to individuals in future.
My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, West asked a technical but very important question about definitions of insolvency. We expect that insolvency will be defined as it is intended to be defined in the pension protection fund. This definition will include schemes that are sponsored by employers in administration and in receivership, as well as those in liquidation. We need to consider in detail the implications of the definition that we intend to use, but we are not about using technicalities or legalese to define people out of a proper assistance programme.
I was in danger earlier of awarding too many honours in my descriptions of certain hon. Members, but I am serious when I say that my hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Mr. Wyatt) has been a persistent, almost obstinate champion of the workers to whom he is so committed. I pay tribute to him in that regard. One photo opportunity that he helped to organise involved a group of ASW workers stripping off on the beachmercifully, behind a banner. There is no truth in the rumour that one reason why we hastily found £400 million was to prevent my hon. Friend from taking off his clothesbe it on the beach or elsewhere.
There is a great deal of unity in the House, which has welcomed the assistance package, so I hope that those who have tabled the various amendments will consider withdrawing them. This was an injustice that needed to be righted and an unfairness that we needed to overthrow, and that is the purpose of this assistance package. Yes, we need to work on the detail, and I have explained our strategy and the milestones that we have adopted. A scheme will be in place by the spring of next year, and as soon as is practicable afterwards, it will deliver the pensions that belong to the workers, and which should be given to them.
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