House of Commons Hansard Debates for 24 May 2004 (pt 11)

Mr. Speaker: I cannot institute an inquiry, but I can say that the Minister came to the House and I appreciate that.

Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow) (Lab): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Both the Minister and the Opposition spokesman referred to Iraq during the statement, but I sensed that you would not wish the subject to be pursued in detail on this occasion. Given the seriousness of the situation, may I gently suggest that perhaps the Department for International Development, the Foreign Office or the Ministry of Defence should make a statement to the House tomorrow on events in Iraq?

Mr. Speaker: I have no doubt that the matter will be considered.

Mr. Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is there anything you can do to protect the relevance of the House? You will know from a glance at the business that is about to commence that we face the absurd prospect of debating the 12 groups of new clauses and amendments that you have selected in only four and a half hours. By my calculation, that is something like 25 minutes per group, and at least two of the groups contain 25 amendments and new clauses. This is in danger of bringing of the House into disrepute, and I wonder whether it is not time to look at all this again and find some way of not getting into the position of neglecting our duty properly to examine legislation.

Mr. Speaker: The right hon. Gentleman could not be accused at any time of neglecting his duty, but his point of order is simply taking more time out of the main business, because it is not a matter for me.

24 May 2004 : Column 1322

Orders of the Day

Civil Contingencies Bill

As amended in the Standing Committee, considered.

New Clause 11

Scotland: Cross-Border Collaboration

'(1) Where a person or body listed in Part 1 of Schedule 1 has a duty under section 2 or 4, the Scottish Ministers may make regulations—

(a) permitting or requiring a person or body listed in Part 2 or 4 of that Schedule to co-operate, to such extent and in such manner as may be specified, with the person or body listed in Part 1 of that Schedule in connection with the performance of the duty;

(b) permitting or requiring a person or body listed in Part 2 or 4 of that Schedule to provide information, either on request or in other specified circumstances, to the person or body listed in Part 1 of that Schedule in connection with the performance of the duty.

(2) The Scottish Ministers may issue guidance about a matter addressed in regulations under subsection (1).

(3) Where a person or body listed in Part 2 of Schedule 1 has a duty under section 2 or 4, a Minister of the Crown may make regulations—

(a) permitting or requiring a person or body listed in Part 1 or 3 of that Schedule to co-operate, to such extent and in such manner as may be specified, with the person or body listed in Part 2 of that Schedule in connection with the performance of the duty;

(b) permitting or requiring a person or body listed in Part 1 or 3 of that Schedule to provide information, either on request or in other specified circumstances, to the person or body listed in Part 2 of that Schedule in connection with the performance of the duty.

(4) A Minister of the Crown may issue guidance about a matter addressed in regulations under subsection (3).

(5) If a Minister of the Crown makes an order under section 5(1) imposing a duty on a person or body listed in Part 1 of Schedule 1, the Scottish Ministers may make an order—

(6) If the Scottish Ministers make an order under section 5(2) imposing a duty on a person or body listed in Part 2 of Schedule 1, a Minister of the Crown may make an order—

(7) A person or body shall—

(a) comply with regulations or an order under this section, and

(b) have regard to guidance under this section.

24 May 2004 : Column 1323

(8) In this Act, except where the contrary intention appears—

(a) a reference to regulations under section 2(3) includes a reference to regulations under subsection (3) above,

(b) a reference to regulations under section 2(4) includes a reference to regulations under subsection (1) above,

(d) a reference to regulations under section 4(3) includes a reference to regulations under subsection (1) above,

(e) a reference to an order under section 5(1) includes a reference to an order under subsection (6) above, and

(f) a reference to an order under section 5(2) includes a reference to an order under subsection (5) above.'.—[Ms Blears.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

4.28 pm

The Minister for Crime Reduction, Policing and Community Safety (Ms Hazel Blears): I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Mr. Speaker : With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments Nos. 82 to 89.

Ms Blears: I am delighted to have the opportunity to participate in this debate. I want first to put on the record my congratulations to my hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office, who cannot be with us this afternoon because he is on paternity leave as the proud father of a daughter, Eve, I think, born about 10 days ago. I am sure the House would wish to join me in that.

I am very much looking forward to the debate this afternoon. Having briefed myself fairly rapidly over the weekend, I know that the Bill has already undergone a huge amount of scrutiny, including pre-legislative scrutiny and two forms of public consultation. There is a plethora of information before us, but I am sure that we will have more extremely good scrutiny this afternoon.

As the House will be aware, the Government, working closely with the devolved Administrations, seek to ensure that civil protection is delivered in a coherent fashion throughout the United Kingdom. New clause 11 and Government amendments Nos. 82 to 89 seek to address the issue of cross-border co-operation and information sharing.

Co-operation and information sharing are absolutely fundamental to effective civil protection arrangements. Emergencies are no respecters of boundaries, and it is important that collaboration take place across borders as well as within them. The amendments that I now propose follow from further discussions that the Government have had with the Scottish Executive. We have looked again at the circumstances in which co-operation and exchange of information should take place, and have concluded that a number of changes to the Bill are required.

As a product of the devolution settlement, in this Bill, Scottish responders not exercising reserved functions come under the jurisdiction of Scottish Ministers. Local responders in England and Wales—and responders performing reserved functions in Scotland—come under the jurisdiction of UK Ministers. At present, Scottish Ministers can require Scottish responders to co-

24 May 2004 : Column 1324

operate with other Scottish responders, and UK Ministers can require English, Welsh or UK-wide responders to cooperate with each other, but there is no power to require cross-border co-operation and information sharing.

I am sorry that the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Carmichael) is not in his place today, as he highlighted the lacuna in the legislation in Committee. It would appear to be an important gap in our legislative armoury.

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