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Mr. John Bercow (Buckingham) (Con): Excellent woman.

Dr. Lewis: She is indeed an excellent woman, and if there was any doubt about that she showed it in spades that day. She invited those heroes to visit the Speaker's apartments, and made a little speech to them. What she said to them could be said to all the veterans of world war two, including those whose presence in the Gallery today I am not allowed to mention but who were on the arctic convoys. What she said was, "Without what you and your comrades did, we would not have a free Parliament today." She added, in her own inimitable way, "I would probably have ended up in a concentration camp." Quick as a flash, Pat Kingsmill said, "Yes, but we would have been right there beside you."
 
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The spirit of these people is absolutely indomitable. My second little anecdote also concerns the Fleet Air Arm. I went to a reception and lunch for the Telegraphist Air Gunners Association, and sat at a table next to a veteran who was busily drawing attention to the achievements of everyone else who was present. That is an example of what the Minister rightly described as the modesty of veterans about what they themselves had done. This gentleman was pointing out this and that person, saying, "There's Les Sayer: he got the DSM for the attack on the Bismarck", and "There's Dickie Richardson: he got the DSM for the raid on the Palembang oil refineries in 1945." Eventually I turned to him and said, "Excuse my asking, but were you not involved in any particularly interesting actions in world war two?" He looked a little embarrassed and said, "Well, I did fly in the raid against the Tirpitz."

As the House will know, the Tirpitz was the sister battleship of the Bismarck. She was attacked first by midget submarines and badly damaged, then by the Fleet Air Arm and damaged again, and finally by the RAF Dambusters, who capsized her. I asked this gentleman, "What was your overwhelming impression of that raid?" He replied, "The sheer size of the battleship." He said, "We came down sharply, as you can imagine, and flew the length of the ship. As I was the telegraphist air gunner I was facing rearwards, and I could see the length of the ship unrolling as we flew along. It went on and on and on." I asked him a rather obvious question: "Do you think you hit it?" He allowed himself the ghost of a smile. "Couldn't really miss from that height," he said.

I do not know about you, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I think I speak for all of us when I say that when I walk out of a room after meeting veterans who have described such experiences—which can be replicated, because Members of Parliament are given opportunities to meet these wonderful people—I feel about six inches taller. I feel my back straightening, and I feel very proud to have met and known them. That is why I sometimes wonder a little about the reluctance of some of our officials at the MOD to advise Ministers that it is not only right to commemorate these events as long and as prominently as we can, but as a very good thing to do. It is good for them, it is good for the country and it is good for future generations. It was never in doubt that if a big ceremony was held to celebrate the 60th anniversary of D-day, it would be done well; the question was whether it would be held. The Minister will recall that there were some quite sharp exchanges both here and in Westminster Hall as recently as October and November last year about what level of representation there would be.

These tributes are very important. It is essential that they should continue and I think that the Government have acknowledged that lesson.

I would like to say something else about the events for which we are today acknowledging sacrifice. Before these veterans, there were the veterans of world war one. Now we honour the veterans of world war two. Fortunately, we have not had to honour veterans of world war three. One of the reasons why there was no
 
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world war three was that we won the cold war. One of the people who was responsible for us winning the cold war was President Ronald Reagan.

I am sorry to inject a slightly disappointed note into my remarks but I was disappointed that, on Monday, the day we came back, the Foreign Secretary paid no tribute to President Reagan until he was provoked into doing so by the shadow Foreign Secretary, and the Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman paid no tribute to him at all even then. Today, we heard reluctant tributes from the Deputy Prime Minister and from the Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman. President Reagan's contribution deserves better acknowledgment than that.

In its first report following his death, the BBC stated that President Reagan described the Soviet Union as an evil empire but later changed his mind. That was news to me. I thought that it was because of the way he confronted it as an evil empire that he changed the Soviet Union and was able to reach agreement with it on disarmament measures that benefited all mankind. According to the BBC website, the Prime Minister said:

"At home, his vision and leadership restored national self-confidence and brought some significant changes to US politics."

Some significant changes to US politics—big deal.

"Abroad, the negotiations of arms control agreements in his second term and his statesmanlike pursuit of more stable relations with the Soviet Union helped bring about the end of the Cold war."

We all know that during President Reagan's first term he pursued tough policies with which people now in government did not agree, but they should be big enough to admit that he was right, because he was right. He helped to save us from having to commemorate veterans of a third world war.

Mr. Bercow: I applaud my hon. Friend's tribute to President Reagan, whose commitment to individual freedom, personal responsibility and the doctrine of peace through strength was exemplary. Does he agree, as millions of veterans would testify, that if the alternative approach of hand-wringing appeasement and unilateral nuclear disarmament had held sway, our world would be vastly less free and infinitely more dangerous than it is?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear.

Dr. Lewis: I think that the reaction of colleagues on the Conservative Benches is sufficient endorsement of what my hon. Friend said. I cannot resist pointing out that the first time I made his acquaintance was in 1983, when I had occasion to brief him on issues about nuclear deterrence and disarmament, and it has been downhill all the way since then.

Let us move back to the substance of the debate, and I thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for your indulgence when I made that slight but necessary diversion. I want to refer to topics such as reunions, memorials, medals, pensions, stress and homelessness. We have all heard how important reunions and recognition are. They are important for the people who took part, for the historical pride of the country, and for the understanding and commitment of young people who will have the destiny of this country in their hands.
 
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I appreciate that the Government will take the view that in some sense it has to stop somewhere—they cannot go on having large-scale commemorations indefinitely for every major campaign. However, that is no reason to believe that there should not be continuing support on a lower level, certainly from the armed forces, for all those veterans who feel that they are strong enough in wind and limb to continue commemorating the events that lead us today to regard them as heroes and to miss the people who never grew up as a result of the sacrifices that they made.

I for one was pleased to read in The Sunday Telegraph at the weekend a story headed "We'll carry on as long as there are veterans, says Gen Jackson". The article stated:

"Britain's most senior Army officer has defied the Ministry of Defence by promising that future D-day commemorations will be conducted as long as there are Normandy veterans."

A senior military officer, who perhaps understandably remained anonymous, is quoted as saying:

"The general is a great and active supporter of several veterans' organisations. He is not going to allow civil servants to tell him or any other soldier when, where and how they will remember those men and women who gave their lives for this country's freedom."

Mr. Desmond Swayne (New Forest, West) (Con): Quite right.

Dr. Lewis: I was hoping to get a response and my hon. Friend did not let me down.

I would like a commitment from the Minister at some point that no obstacles will be put in the way of the armed forces when they are ready and willing to give commitments to support veterans who are able to go on commemorating the activities that led to victory in the last world war and in subsequent conflicts, even if they do not feel that they can stage an operation at the same level of intensity as was successfully carried out on 6 June this year.

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