---

The Prime Minister: We need to pursue both issues by trying to make sure that we encourage greater fuel efficiency, greater energy efficiency and emissions trading. We must build on what is in the Kyoto protocol. Even if it is ratified, it will amount only to keeping emissions more or less steady—perhaps with a 1 or 2 per cent. reduction—whereas it is estimated that by the year 2050 we need a 60 per cent. reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. That is why I say that we have to take this further. One area where we are able to work with countries such as China and with America is in the development of science and technology as a means of trying to deal with this issue.
 
14 Jun 2004 : Column 531
 

Mr. Gordon Prentice (Pendle) (Lab): My right hon. Friend told us that democratic reform in the middle east must come from within. With that very important qualification, will he tell us when he expects to see a democratic Saudi Arabia?

The Prime Minister: I do not know is the answer, and it is the answer that my hon. Friend would expect me to give. What I do know is that there is recognition by the Saudi Government and the House of Saud of the need for reform, but the reform process must be managed in such a way that it leads to the betterment of Saudi Arabia, its people and the region, and there are obvious pitfalls that have to be avoided.

Mr. John Wilkinson (Ruislip-Northwood) (Con): In rightly paying tribute to the two British contractors so tragically killed earlier today in Iraq, will the Prime Minister also reflect on the personnel of Médecins sans Frontières in Afghanistan, who also lost their lives not so long ago, and the serious security situation there in the run-up to the critically important elections in September? In discussions with the Afghan leadership and others in Savannah, did the NATO countries produce any proposals to increase NATO forces in Afghanistan and enhance the training of Afghan personnel?

The Prime Minister: Yes, and I hope that, at the NATO summit next month, we will be able to set those plans out. As the President of Afghanistan said, huge progress has been made in the country—there is no doubt about that with 2.5 million people returning, 30 per cent. economic growth last year and 20 per cent. this year—but there is a continuing problem with remnants of the Taliban or al-Qaeda who carry out attacks on aid workers and others who are trying to help the country. The security situation is less serious but is not totally dissimilar in its nature to what is happening in Iraq. I believe that NATO has to do more and that we need to extend the provincial reconstruction teams throughout the whole of the country to make sure that good security exists not just in Kabul, but outside it as well. I hope that we will be able to make significant progress on that at the NATO summit and that I will be able to report back to the House accordingly.

Mr. George Howarth (Knowsley, North and Sefton, East) (Lab): I thank my right hon. Friend for the positive tone of his report of the G8 summit. Does he agree that terrorism masked as religious zealotry, whether in the middle east or elsewhere, or thinly veiled xenophobia here or elsewhere in Europe will, far from providing solutions to many of these problems, combine to create further problems?

The Prime Minister: I am sure that my hon. Friend is right. A clear link exists between the terrorism that we see in Afghanistan and in Iraq. It is terrorism whose purpose is to produce chaos that denies political progress. That is why we must be resolute in dealing with it, wherever it takes place. In the end, the people who are engaged in those terrorist acts are determined to try to make real some theory about a clash of religious cultures
 
14 Jun 2004 : Column 532
 
or civilisations, whereas it is obvious that the vast majority of people—whether in the middle east or in this country—want to live side by side in peace.

Dr. Jenny Tonge (Richmond Park) (LD): Does the Prime Minister agree that the road map to peace in the middle east is a somewhat dog-eared document? In fact, the dog appears to have eaten part of it after Israel's unilateral and brutal action in Gaza. Will the Prime Minister tell us why he will not consider a suspension of the EU-Israel association agreement until progress is made, as recommended by the Foreign Affairs Committee?

The Prime Minister: I shall tell the hon. Lady why. I do not agree with her about the road map. It is not that it is dog-eared because it has been pored over too much: it has been pored over too little. Before the road map can work, the precondition for it—the first phase—is that security measures be taken on the Palestinian side and mirrored on the Israeli side. We have not reached that point yet, because the Palestinian side does not, unfortunately, have the capability to take those measures. That is why it is important that the Quartet is able to help to build the infrastructure on the Palestinian side to make sure that it can do—and be seen to do—its level best to prevent terrorism.

I also say to the hon. Lady that I always think that it is wrong if people mention only one side of the pain in the conflict. We have made our criticisms of Israeli policy in relation to the reprisals that have occurred, but she could also have mentioned, for example, the shooting dead by terrorists of a pregnant woman and her three children for no other reason than that they were Israelis. We must understand that pain is caused on both sides and we should not start threatening suspension of association agreements but help to get a viable security and political plan in place that can make a difference.

Mr. Tom Clarke (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab): Will my right hon. Friend accept that he has widespread support in the House on two issues with regard to Africa—not only for what the Government have said but for what they have done? For example, the statement on Darfur last week by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Development was seen as excellent and proactive.

Given what my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said at the press conference on debt, is he committed to the debt write-offs for Africa that we have rightly been considering for some time? Will he continue to take that view as he chairs the G8 and at the next meeting of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank?

The Prime Minister: Yes, we will do our best to make progress on the debt write-offs, which we obviously support. It is important to see that progress in the context of the Commission for Africa, and we hope that it will also deal with the other issues. I should have said earlier that the issue on which the African leaders expressed the strongest views was trade and access to markets. The aid and assistance they receive is fine, but they feel that they could do so much more if they had
 
14 Jun 2004 : Column 533
 
access to our markets. That is the other issue on which we must concentrate strongly. I also agree with my right hon. Friend in respect of the Sudan.

Mr. John Randall (Uxbridge) (Con): What discussions did the Prime Minister have about the present situation in Kosovo?

The Prime Minister: We did not specifically discuss Kosovo, although I discussed it in the margins of the G8. We continue to work to ensure that there is some forward plan for Kosovo that has some chance of acceptance. We watch what is happening there at present with some concern, but the European Union in particular is focused on ensuring that our efforts are successful. Although the issue was not discussed round the table, it was certainly discussed in the margins.

Mrs. Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): I very much welcome efforts to revive the road map, but what steps will be taken to prevent them from being undermined by Iran and Syria through their continued practical support for terrorist groups dedicated to the destruction not just of the peace initiative but of the state of Israel?

The Prime Minister: That, of course, is one very important part of the road map. One of the important things is that people actually read the road map; it is a lot spoken about but often not much studied. The road map makes it clear that a vital precondition of getting into the right security dialogue, which is what phase 1 of the road map is about, is that all support for terrorist groups from countries in the region stops. We have to make that very, very clear to them and I hope that part of the Quartet plan will be specifically to put pressure on countries surrounding Israel and in the middle east to ensure that that happens; otherwise it will be very difficult to build confidence in Israel that the plan has a chance of success.

Mr. Harry Barnes (North-East Derbyshire) (Lab): Is not democracy stronger when it grows from inside a nation? If the G8 feel that they need to give a nudge to the middle east to develop it, what will they do to build up the infrastructure and the democratic will that are required? Democracy, as the Prime Minister will be pleased to hear, is not just about elections; it is about the whole running of civil society.

---