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Mrs. Barbara Roche (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab):
I qualified as a barrister in 1977, and as many Members will know, back then, on becoming a barrister one was not allowed to earn any money for the first six months—and rightly so, as I certainly knew nothing then. Since then, the system has improved somewhat through sponsorships and scholarships. In my second six months I was allowed to earn money, and during that period I was fortunate to be in chambers that gave me quite a lot of work, much of which was to do with domestic violence. I was given such work because it was not regarded as important, and it certainly was not the sort of work that more senior barristers and members of chambers would do. It was the work that nobody else wanted, so the most recently qualified member of chambers would be sent along, and would probably turn up in court having got the papers that morning or the night before.
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I was very young and although I would not need a white wig now, I certainly did then, and mine was a very new wig indeed. I was representing women—and it was women—who were in the most difficult of circumstances, and indelibly fixed in my mind is one of my very first appearances. I went to the county court to represent a woman in respect of a non-molestation and ouster application. She had been the victim of severe domestic violence, but the judge made an instant judgment about her and her character and morals. He said, in open court, "I won't have your client behaving like a slut." He attached conditions to the order and it eventually ended up in the Court of Appeal. That is an illustration of how the courts, the judiciary and the system treated women in those cases.
Not long after that, I went to work in, and helped to run, a law centre in London. We had a number of cases of domestic violence. At that time, not many firms of solicitors wanted to take on those cases. I recall a case in that law centre where we had found a refuge space for a woman and we were going to court, but she returned to a violent husband who murdered her. That case was not unusual and it happens every week in our country.
Today, some years later, the position has changed. I anticipate that we will have a consensual debate today—an adult and a grown-up debate in which we can treat the issue seriously and view it with the importance that it deserves. For a long time, though, we could not have such a discussion—certainly not in the country at large and, if we are absolutely honest, not in this place.
When I entered the House in 1992, I was lucky to be chosen to sit on the Home Affairs Committee and one of our first reports was on domestic violence. I have just refreshed my memory of the conclusions that it drew. I argued in that Committee that we should work to produce a report on domestic violence, but some of my colleagues wanted instead to produce a report on car boot sales. Nevertheless, we produced the report on domestic violence and the House has certainly made progress on the issue.
It is not just the House that has changed; many other agencies and services have also changed. The police service, for example, is now radically different from the one that we used to know. I recall how it used to be in the early days of the domestic violence units when only a couple of police officers in those units knew what they were doing and were sympathetic. I am not saying that policing is perfect now; of course it is not. In the main, however, a change of culture has occurred among the police. Anyone who travels around to speak to people working in the area of women's aid will know that they have extremely good relationships with their local police officers. That is a tremendous step forward.
However, many women and children in our society remain in an appalling position. The figures on the number of women who are victims of domestic violence are staggering. I have to say that, if those figures were reversed and it were the men in our society who were dying at the same rate, there would probably be a national inquiry. For far too long, domestic violence has been treated as if it were somehow an issue of concern for women only—a women's issue. It is not. It is an issue for men and women. It is one of the most vital criminal justice issues in our society.
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I warmly welcome the Bill. It is a very important step forward. The fact that we can have a debate in which all parties of the House make a constructive contribution is a vital aspect of progress. However, we still need to deal with some other issues, and we must use legislation to deal with some of the matters that are so important to tackling domestic violence. Of course the legislation is vital, but we must use it as a way to change the culture by adopting measures that go alongside it. There are problems for women whose immigration status is uncertain, especially in connection with the recourse to public funds rule. That issue has been raised many times over the years, as the hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs. Gillan) rightly said, by Southall Black Sisters. In fact, it was raised in the Home Affairs Committee report that I mentioned a moment ago, because that group came to give evidence to the Committee, and I remember advocating that it should do so. That remains a major issue, but it could be overcome.
We must also face the issue of legal aid, because there are problems with some firms of solicitors being unable to take on domestic violence cases. I had such a case recently in my constituency. The thresholds for qualification are also a problem that will have to be looked at.
We must also ensure that the Government's approach to domestic violence is truly joined-up. That is why it is good to see so many different Departments taking part. When I was responsible for homelessness, among other issues, I put some of our budget into tackling domestic violence and into support for the 24-hour hotline, because we know that domestic violence is a major driver of homelessness. Any council housing department will confirm that. A proper, joined-up approach is vital.
We must also ensure that refuge provision is not patchy. Some parts of the country have a surplus of housing stock and it is easier for women and families to find other accommodation, but it can be much more difficult in other areas. We need to support organisations such as Women's Aid and Refuge. I take this opportunity to pay tribute to the people who work in those organisations. I felt very privileged when I had the chance to tour those organisations, and I found it amazing how long the people working there had spent doing so. It was not unusual to find women who had worked there for 15, 20, 25 or 30 years. One remarkable organisation was run by a mother-and-daughter team who had put in untold years of work, at not very high pay, completely devoted to public service. That is public service at the highest level. People can suffer burn-out in providing such a service, but it was especially pleasing to meet women who had been through domestic violence and then come back to those organisations to work as advisers and counsellors.
My final point concerns education. We need to ensure that we educate children to realise at a very young age that domestic violence is wrong. The provision of domestic violence education in schools is patchy. In some areas, local education authorities and schools have incorporated the issue into the curriculum, but others have not. We need to make much more progress in that area. Girls and young women need to know that they do
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not have to put up with domestic violence. Boys and young men need to know that decent men do not behave in that way. That is why we need to think of different ideas for getting to people. When we had the idea of putting advertisements for women's aid in black cabs in London, it was looked on by some as extraordinary, but everybody wants to have a say in pointing out that domestic violence is wrong. It is important that we think of non-traditional methods of getting over that message about domestic violence.
Domestic violence knows no particular social groups; it has no socio-economic barrier—it is there and we must overcome it. Although I am not complacent, I feel more confident than ever before that we are on the way to tackling domestic violence. However, it will require not only the Bill but a great deal of hard work and effort to ensure that we have measures alongside it to bring it to fruition.
5.40 pm
Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): I warmly welcome the Bill, and we have already heard three extremely constructive speeches in its support. It has been eagerly awaited; it seemed to take an intolerable time to come from the other end of the Corridor, but it was eagerly awaited before that because we had hoped for legislation in the last Session. Nevertheless, it is more important for the measure to be right than early; as previous speakers said, domestic violence is undoubtedly a major issue for our criminal justice system, as is the support of victims and witnesses, so we need constructive legislation to deal with it.
When we talk about domestic violence, we are talking principally about violence of men on women, but not exclusively; it is equally important to remember that domestic violence can be directed against men and against children, who are often the inadvertent victims of domestic violence against another individual, usually their mother. There is also abuse of people who are vulnerable through age or infirmity.
I am about to say something that I rarely say to the Home Secretary: he has introduced a Home Office Bill that may not, I fear, go quite far enough. I do not suppose I shall ever say those words again. My fear has been recognised by practitioners in the field, many of whom, as the right hon. Gentleman is aware, were keen to brief us of their concerns about both the commissions and omissions of the Bill. I share with the hon. Member for Hornsey and Wood Green (Mrs. Roche) admiration for those who work in associations dealing with domestic violence issues and with victim support; they do an admirable job, often with little credit, so if we can make some redress for that it will be worth doing. They have expressed disappointment that the Bill does not deal with some of the aspects that they wanted it to cover. It will be the job of those of us who serve on the Standing Committee to set out some of their proposals—not to wreck the Bill, but to improve it. We want not to undermine the Bill but to ensure that it does its job in the most effective way.
Domestic violence has been around for a long time—we should not see it as a new phenomenon. Recently, I attended a production of "Oliver!" by Frome operatic
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society and it occurred to me that Bill Sykes is the archetype of an abuser—the domestic abuse of his partner ended up with familial homicide. Such fictional archetypes make us realise the prevalence of violence in domestic relationships; it has been with us for a long time and, sadly, is still prevalent.
I entirely agree with the Home Secretary when he said—I think that the hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs. Gillan) agreed—that this problem could not be cured entirely by statute. We should not pretend that it could. A cultural change is needed in many ways to deal with a public culture of acceptance or tolerance of abusive behaviour within a relationship. I do not accept such tolerance, and I hope that no Member of House would accept it either. Sometimes it is reinforced by cultural stereotypes within a particular youth culture. I am not one of those who say that every ill in this society is down to pop culture, films or anything else. However, when it is possible for reputable record companies to put out records that talk about slapping partners around as if that were normal behaviour or something to be admired, I have serious concerns. I am not a natural censor; I do not want to stop people enjoying the music that they enjoy. However, a degree of responsibility is required.
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