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Sir Menzies Campbell: I am most grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman, although he has to some extent passed on from the point on which I wanted to intervene. He and I will have to agree to disagree about the word "constitution", but what does his party propose to do in the event that this legal instrument were not to receive the approval of the British people? Would his party be content to operate under the four existing treaties and the Single European Act? How would that provide the clarity that is necessary for a European Union expanded from the original six to 25?
Mr. Ancram: We have never had a problem with looking at what might loosely be called a charter of competences that sets out clearly what the European Union can do and what national Parliaments should be able to do. However, if the right hon. and learned Gentleman thinks that this document is an example of clarity, his time in the law may have clouded his judgment as to what is clear.
We are still told that the proposed constitution does not cross the threshold between the room marked "A Europe of Nations" and the room marked "A Sovereign European State". Perhaps, in totality, it does not, but it certainly moves from the anteroom of one to the anteroom of the other, and it does not take an immense step to move from one room to the other anyway.
Let me quote from the evidence given to the Lords Select Committee on the Constitution by Professor John McEldowney of the university of Warwick on 15 October last year. He said:
"While the Constitution may constitute the sum total of the existing Treaties revised and refined, it is also endowed with the status of a Constitution—even though this status is not well defined or explained. Inevitably the status of a Constitution invites interpretation by the courts and this adds an additional dimension of how judges might interpret the terms of the Constitution."
That goes to the absolute heart of why the constitution is objectionable.
If the Prime Minister was true to his past words and recognised the strength of feeling expressed by the British electorate last week, he would go to Brussels to say no, and I still hope for Britain's sake that he will, but I fear that he will not. He is, after all, the Prime Minister who twice in the past four years has called for the creation—his words, not mine—of a European superpower. That is the Government's real agenda. They talk the talk of the Europe of nations; they walk the walk of an increasingly integrated and politically united Europe.
The signs are there. First, we saw recently a report of Romano Prodi's group, set up under the chairmanship of Dominique Strauss-Kahn, including a former Government Minister and confidant of the Prime Minister, Lord Simon of Highbury. The report says that the formation of the EEC was no more than a first step in the federation of Europe. It clearly maps out the desired path and states:
"The time has now come to take the second step: that of the march towards political union".
Mr. Strauss-Khan helpfully explains how it will all be achieved:
"As demonstrated by the draft Constitutional Treaty, there will be no 'revolutionary leap' to a political Europe: it will be built by small reforming steps."
He went on, very helpfully, to set out those steps. The first stage is to adopt the draft constitutional treaty produced by the European Convention. The second is to develop the context and the financing of Union policies in negotiations on the next financial perspective. The third is to bring to life the European model within the first European constitution. The fourth is to make use of the experience acquired to define the next political phase. He ended up by saying:
"The need to make further progress towards political union will become clear."
It is absolutely clear that that is a road map towards political union—he makes no pretence about it—and I find it strange that the Government are still denying that that is what the constitution is about, but we are told that that is not the Government's position. It might not be, except for another report—the declaration by the European Socialists party, published last February, called "Europe 2004—Changing the Future". That is an interesting document. For a start, it talks about eliminating
"all unfair competition between the national social security systems of our Member States."
Where would that leave the Government's red line? It says:
"The idea of an international tax continues to gain ground and should be explored, such as a tax on speculative movements of capital, on CO 2 emissions, or a global tax on multinational corporate profits."
Again, where would that leave the Government's much proclaimed red line? It talks about "a common immigration policy" and
"a move towards single EU seats in the different international organisations."
For a start, that would mean losing our seat on the United Nations Security Council to an EU representative who, on all past evidence, would rarely represent the British view—[Interruption.] The Foreign Secretary laughs. He ought to read that document; it is very informative.
We were told, much to my astonishment, that that was not the Government's position either. That argument does not work this time because that document—I have a copy here—is actually signed by the Minister for Europe. When that was disclosed, we were told, rather surprisingly, that he did so in his political rather than his ministerial capacity. Again, not quite: the document sets out against his signature the term "Minister for Europe, UK", so he signed it in that capacity.
The Minister for Europe (Mr. Denis MacShane) indicated dissent.
Mr. Ancram:
Not in that capacity—if the Minister for Europe does not speak for the Government on Europe, who does? The Deputy Prime Minister told me last week that that was not Government policy. All I can say is why is the hon. Gentleman sitting on the Front Bench as the Minister for Europe if what he now signs is not the Government's policy?
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There is something rather endearing about the Minister for Europe. When the Government are busy laying down the usual smokescreens, he invariably—if I may mix a metaphor—lets the cat out of the bag, and this time the cat is the cat of further European integration, which has always covertly been the Government's aim. To disguise that, the Government, led by the Prime Minister and aped by the Minister for Europe, set out, extremely foolishly, to suggest that the only question on Europe was whether to stay in or get out. They sought quite deliberately to polarise the argument and to deny that there was any position in between. The result of that polarisation was clear on Sunday and the Government have only themselves to blame. They deliberately set out to try to hide the fact that there is another option—a more constructive, more sensible and more forward-looking way. It is our way, and the results of the election show that it was the option that secured the most votes.
Our policy would make the EU more open, more accountable and more efficient. It would be an EU that would not try to do everything, but that would do what it does better. We want to build a flexible Europe, following the precedents set by the opt-outs from the euro and the Schengen agreement, which shows how flexibly Europe can work. Enhanced co-operation enables some member states to go ahead with further integration, even when others do not want to do so. So countries that wanted to integrate still further could do so, but others would not be compelled to join them. That is why we keep on stressing the importance of a flexible Europe.
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): I have heard many of the right hon. and learned Gentleman's speeches, and as I understand it he is arguing that he would never sign up to, negotiate or start to negotiate anything that looked like a constitutional treaty or a constitution of any kind, but that he would like a charter of competences, as I think he referred to it earlier. However, I have yet to find another country in Europe that is prepared to take part in that negotiation with him. Therefore, unless he is prepared to sign up to the treaty to allow a change in the process of negotiating the treaty, there is no means to establish what he wants.
Mr. Ancram: The hon. Gentleman should study not just this country's election result, but those right across Europe. If he did so, he would find some very strange results, with countries, particularly those that have just joined the EU—inasmuch as they bothered to vote at all—showing a very strong and healthy concern about the way that the constitution is directing Europe.
The Conservative approach will anchor national Parliaments at the heart of the EU law-making and decision-making process. As I said earlier, we want a red card system to be introduced: if, say, five or more national Parliaments object to new or existing European legislation on the grounds of subsidiarity or proportionality, it should be withdrawn or repealed, not just reviewed. The EU Commission should lose its monopoly right of initiative on legislation and share it with member states.
The current rotating Council presidency should be, and can be, reformed by establishing rotating team presidencies of perhaps one year, involving big and
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small members. That would allow the burden of chairing the Council of the European Union to be shared between members, rather than held by an individual character for five years. The acquis communautaire needs to be systematically reviewed, so that powers that would be better administered by the nation states are returned to them. Defence and foreign affairs co-operation should be defined in practical, organisational terms. That would allow ad hoc coalitions and pan-European action where desirable and task specific, but all within the NATO structure. The common fisheries policy is emptying our seas of fish and utterly failing our fishermen, so we will negotiate to restore local and national control over British fisheries.
That will be the start. For too long, we have sat back as powers were leached away from national Parliaments to Brussels.
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