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Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The Minister has said that he would like to be satisfied that he has the clearance of parliamentary counsel and his advisers before he commends a particular wording to the House, even though there is a general intent to get it right. It is important that it is technically correct, so that the legislation is not in any way defective. As I have told the right hon. Gentleman and the House, if there is the will, there is another way that would be effective in achieving that without detriment to the legislation.
Mr. Knight:
Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Without wishing in any way to
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challenge what you have said, it would be helpful to know whether the Minister is seeking to contact parliamentary counsel now, or whether that is impossible. If that is happening at the moment, some hon. Members would wish to continue our debate for a short period while inquiries are taking place. If they cannot take place now, it would be helpful to know that.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. So that we may be clear, I did not accept that the Minister had finally concluded his speech. He still has the floor, and if he wishes to resume his speech to clarify any further points, I call upon him to do so.
Mr. Sutcliffe: I apologise but, in the spirit of what we are all trying to achieve, it will not be possible to get the clearance and cover that I seek in the available time scale. I prefer the route via the other place that you suggested, Mr. Deputy Speaker, with the caveat about not losing the Bill. I certainly want to reflect the spirit of hon. Members' suggestions in any subsequent amendment, and urge the right hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Mr. Forth) to withdraw his amendment on that basis.
Mr. Forth: I am grateful both to the hon. Member for North Durham and to the Minister for their extremely positive approach, which is a good example of the proper use of procedures for the scrutiny and consideration of Bills. It has emerged that my modest amendment has support on both sides of the House, and the general will is that it should be pursued. I do not wish in any way to jeopardise the Bill at this stage, and in that spirit, I join the Minister in hoping that he and the hon. Member for North Durham will find a way of accepting in the House of Lords an amendment of the nature that we have discussed and broadly agreed, on the understanding, if my procedures are correct—that is not always the case—that such an amendment could come back to the House of Commons, either on 16 July or on 15 October. Unusually, we have more time then than we have had in previous years.
Mr. Sutcliffe: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving way, as I want to be absolutely clear about what we are doing. If he is right about the procedure, and that can be done, there is no problem as far as I am concerned. However, if it cannot be done, we need to deal with the matter appropriately.
Mr. Forth: The Minister is a man of integrity, and I very much accept the spirit and letter of what he has said. I therefore beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
1.8 pm
Mr. Kevan Jones: I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
I pay tribute to everyone who took part in the debate on Report, which was very good and well natured. As the right hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Mr. Forth) said, we have tried to improve the Bill, and with Members' good will it will, I hope, complete Third
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Reading and become law in another place. I am pleased that it has reached this stage, and I pay tribute to hon. Members who contributed to Second Reading and served on the Standing Committee. I thank the Bill's sponsors, including the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith), my hon. Friend the Member for Stockport (Ms Coffey), the hon. Member for South Staffordshire (Sir Patrick Cormack) and my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton, North-East (Mr. Crausby). I am particularly grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mrs. Dunwoody), who piloted a similar Bill in the last Parliament. However, that Bill ran out of parliamentary time, and she put a lot of time and effort into achieving the aims in my Bill.
I thank my friend, the hon. Member for Aldershot (Mr. Howarth) for his support, and also my hon. Friend the Members for Warrington, North (Helen Jones), and my hon. Friend the Member for West Lancashire (Mr. Pickthall), who worked hard on the Bill and has worked closely over a number of years for the rights and interests of shop workers. I thank my hon. Friends the Members for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami) and for West Bromwich, East (Mr. Watson) and the hon. Member for Macclesfield (Sir Nicholas Winterton) for their sponsorship of the Bill.
On Second Reading and on Report, we heard that the Bill was about protecting shop workers. That is correct. It will help 2.6 million shop workers in Britain to keep one day of the year special for themselves and their families. The Bill has also been supported by Church groups and others and by the general public. The number of letters that I have received from members of the public saying that the Bill seems a sensible way forward shows that it has universal support across the country.
I pay tribute to USDAW, the shop workers' union, for its campaign, and particularly to Sir Bill Connor, the retiring general secretary, who has worked tirelessly to promote the Bill and the interests of shop workers over many years. Through his active participation in his union and the trade union movement generally, he has ensured that working conditions for shop workers are better than when he joined the union as a young official.
David Cairns (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab): My hon. Friend is entirely accurate when he describes the good work done by USDAW. When I introduced my private Member's Bill this time last year to afford protection to shop workers in Scotland, I found USDAW to be an extremely effective campaigner on behalf of its members, which is not true of all trade unions.
Mr. Jones: I concur with the first part of those remarks, but as a former full-time official of the GMB, I cannot concur with my hon. Friend's remarks about other trade unions.
I pay tribute to the Keep Sunday Special campaign, which has worked to promote the Bill. Its work has widespread support. The Bill also received wide support in the House. Early-day motion 327, which I tabled in December last year, had support across the House. Both on Second Reading and in the debate today we saw that
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although hon. Members may support the Bill for different reasons, it has cross-party support, irrespective of political differences—for example, it has the support of our libertarian friend the right hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Mr. Forth). I know that he is often criticised for being destructive and he was vociferously attacked by a fellow Opposition Member on Second Reading, but he has been extremely constructive as regards the Bill and the amendments that he moved today will improve it.
The Bill will stop the domino effect that would have occurred among large shops. Once one large shop opened on Christmas day, market pressures would have forced others to follow. It is interesting that in the consultation that took place, the Bill was supported not only by trade unions, religious groups and the public, but by major retailers, which do not want to be forced into making Christmas day just another trading day. Although the debate today on ethnic minorities was important, it is also important to remember that during the consultation there were no major objections to the Bill as framed.
As I said on Second Reading, the Bill is supported by Mr. David Rae, the chief executive of the Association of Convenience Stores. If it becomes law, it will assist some of the small corner shops and convenience stores that are so vital to many communities. I always describe my constituency as rural with urban problems, and many of the convenience stores in the small villages in North Durham are the life and soul of those communities, so it is important to support them. They meet a social need that will not be affected by the Bill, which will help them in trading on Christmas day.
The wider debate, which has been touched on but is perhaps for another day, is about whether the Sunday Trading Act 1994 needs to be reconsidered. Given that we are nearly 10 years on, perhaps that needs to be done, but it would have been ambitious, to say the least, to take my private Member's Bill into the minefield that surrounded that Bill in 1994. However, the Government need to consider ensuring that we have a structure and laws that people want and that cater for local needs.
In conclusion, I thank again all hon. Members who support the Bill and have taken part in today's debates and Second Reading. The Bill has cross-party support and widespread support in the country. I also pay tribute to the Minister for playing a vital role in ensuring the Bill's passage through the House. He has not taken the rigid view that Ministers or officials sometimes take. He has tried to reach the necessary compromises. I apologise to his officials if I have been a bit abrupt with them on occasion. I hope that, with the amendments and good will that have been apparent today, we can ensure that the Bill becomes law when it returns from the other place.
1.17 pm
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