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Mr. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Cotswold) (Con): My hon. Friend has read the Bill carefully and will know
 
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that paragraph 20 of schedule 1 states that the devolved authorities may make loans to the agency—that is, the HPA. Sub-paragraph (3) goes on to say:

"A loan may be made on such terms (including terms as to repayment and interest) as the person making the loan decides."

Would my hon. Friend like to take out a loan from his bank manager on those terms, without any negotiations taking place?

Dr. Murrison: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I would certainly like to take out a loan from my bank manager if I were able to dictate the terms. That ties in with the issue of the devolved Assemblies deciding what they will contribute to the budget of the HPA. That needs to be more clearly laid out.

We have had a far-ranging debate, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and you have been extremely patient in allowing a broad debate on public health issues. It is a shame that in her remarks the Minister did not touch on the public health concerns of our constituents. I hope that the Minister might deal with subjects such as tuberculosis, hospital-acquired infection, teenage pregnancy and chlamydia. We want to know not just about the structure of delivery of public health, but precisely how Ministers plan to address the important public health issues that face us.

7.58 pm

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Dr. Stephen Ladyman): I join the hon. Member for Westbury (Dr. Murrison) in his paean of praise for the National Radiological Protection Board. In a previous incarnation I, too, worked closely with the NRPB. I worked in the building next door. When the building that the NRPB occupied was used for filming an episode of "Dr. Who", it was one of the few occasions that I can recollect when one could see a cyber man eating his sandwiches on the lawn in the sunshine. The standard of science in the NRPB was always of the highest quality, and I congratulate the board on the work it has done in the past.

As the Under-Secretary of State for Health, my hon. Friend the Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Miss Johnson) said when she opened today's debate, the establishment of the HPA was first proposed in "Getting Ahead of the Curve", the chief medical officer's strategy for infectious disease and other aspects of health protection. She also explained why it was decided to create the agency through a two-stage process, and that the Bill is the second stage of that process.

The HPA special health authority came into existence on 1 April 2003, and the Bill will complete that process by establishing the agency in UK-wide legislation as a non-departmental public body and by giving it the full range of functions that were envisaged for it in "Getting Ahead of the Curve", which highlighted the diversity and constantly changing nature of the threats to public health that we face.

The rationale for creating the agency was the recognition that the existing structure for health protection in this country needed strengthening in order to manage those threats. In particular, the specialist support for health protection on which the NHS and local authorities rely was fragmented among a number of different bodies and individuals. Those included the
 
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Public Health Laboratory Service, the national focus for chemical incidents, regional service providers, the National Radiological Protection Board, the Centre for Applied Microbiology and Research, as well as local consultants in communicable disease control and regional health emergency planning advisers.

That fragmentation was a concern, and the Government concluded that the delivery of health protection services at both local and national levels could be improved by combining the functions of those bodies and individuals in a single organisation. That will allow the agency to function as a one-stop shop, capable of providing the expertise for dealing with any scenario. It should also enable a greater degree of cross-fertilisation of good ideas and good practice between the different fields of health protection.

As the Under-Secretary of State for Health, my hon. Friend the Member for Welwyn Hatfield and I have already said, the agency was first created as a special health authority and already provides the UK Government with stronger and more integrated arrangements for health protection. The HPA has also strengthened our ability to respond to threats from chemical and biological terrorism. In particular, it has co-ordinated a number of training exercises and has recently issued a set of clinical action cards for GPs that contain advice on identifying and treating victims of chemical or biological attack.

I shall deal with some of the points raised by hon. Members in the debate. The hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr. Lansley) was somewhat churlish in his comments about the Government's review of arm's length bodies. He might have mentioned that one of that review's objectives is to save £500 million by 2007–08, but that seemed to slip his memory.

My hon. Friend the Member for Erewash (Liz Blackman) pointed out that the agency will have the scope to raise standards. It will have the powers and the independence to publish what it likes, when it likes. [Interruption.] I realise that the hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire spoke for a very long time, but he did not say an awful lot that is worth responding to, although I shall return to one or two of his points.

My hon. Friend the Member for Erewash asked about the types of bodies that must co-operate under the Bill. It would not be practical to list all such bodies in the Bill, but we do not envisage that they will find it difficult to recognise themselves. Such bodies will include NHS bodies, local health authorities, the national public health service for Wales, the Scottish centre for infection and environmental health and international bodies such as the World Health Organisation. We regard co-operation between such bodies as essential.

Dr. Murrison: Will the Minister give way?

Dr. Ladyman: No. The hon. Gentleman spoke for a very long time. Although well-paid hon. Members are present tonight, I am sure that less well-paid members of Palace staff want to get away to do other things this evening, and we should have shown them a little more respect.

The hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Mr. Burstow) pointed out that the Bill should be about more than administration. Creating the agency is about
 
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more than administration, and its work will be much more important than just administration. However, the Bill itself is about the creation of a new body and the relevant structures; it is not about the public health agenda in its wider aspects. The Bill is a Bill; it is not an action plan or the public health plan that Conservative Members have gone on about all day. It is only the generosity of the Deputy Speakers during the day that has allowed them to wax lyrical on many pet subjects, some of which are important, but are not necessarily pertinent to the Bill.

My hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich, West (Mr. Bailey) rightly pointed out that the agency will have a strategic planning role for national health. He pointed out that by its nature the NHS is reactive, and that the HPA can have a proactive role. He also highlighted the important principle of partnership working.

The right hon. Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Mr. Lilley), the hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire and others raised the subject of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus. The right hon. Member for Hitchin and Harpenden has discussed MRSA on previous occasions. I know that he takes a great deal of interest in that subject, and I congratulate him on that, and on the thoughtful way in which he put his points. However, he also made a lot of party political points, before saying that we should not make party political points and going into the thoughtful section of his speech.

The right hon. Member for Hitchin and Harpenden and the hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire highlighted the success of countries such as the Netherlands and Denmark and asked why they do not have the same problem with MRSA as us. One reason is that those countries did not suffer the misfortune of 18 years of Tory Government, and as a consequence they did not lose the culture that is necessary to ensure cleanliness and action against infection, and the building fabric of their health services did not fail.

Dealing with MRSA is not only a matter of cleanliness, although that is clearly part of the equation. The matter also concerns the built environment and the availability of single rooms. We must create hospitals where such infections can be resisted and a culture of behaviour to prevent the spread of infection. None of those things happen overnight. We have implemented measures on all of them, and I am confident that we will see great improvements in the control of MRSA as a consequence of those changes.

My hon. Friend the Member for North-West Leicestershire (David Taylor) raised a constituency case. I encourage him to write to me with more details and I shall ensure that it is examined. He asked whether the Environment Agency was a health and safety body under the Bill. The answer is no. Health and safety bodies under the Bill are defined in clause 3(7). My hon. Friend also asked whether the agency could co-operate with the Environment Agency under clause 5 and the answer to that is yes. We shall look into the matter that he raised.

The hon. Members for New Forest, East (Dr. Lewis) and for Rayleigh (Mr. Francois) raised defence issues that are important and fascinating but, for the most part, frankly irrelevant to today's debate.
 
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We live in a dangerous world where we are at war with terrorists. That war has gone on for many years and will continue for many years. Tragically, in this country, we know the consequences of terrorist attacks and we can expect terrorists to try—and they may succeed—to acquire biological, chemical and radiological weapons in the future. That is why it is essential to have a health protection agency that is capable of building up a body of expertise and helping us to manage the potential threats.

We hope that such attacks will never come to pass—we must hope for the best and prepare for the worst. That is what the agency will do. We should not forget that mother nature can bowl the odd googly, as we have seen with recent outbreaks of SARS and the tragedy of HIV. We need an agency that is capable of focusing expertise and giving us genuine independent advice. The Bill creates exactly that in the new Health Protection Agency. I commend it to the House.

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