---

Mr. Jenkin: The Minister has made a significant announcement. He has acknowledged, implicitly, that there are potential problems with all-postal ballots. It remains to be seen whether the Electoral Commission can be the independent arbiter of those problems, given that it has already succumbed to Government pressure over which regions took part in the pilot. In addition, the Minister has also put in question the whole future of the regional referendums. A large number of Labour Members would like those referendums to be abandoned. What does the Minister have to say to them?

Mr. Leslie: The hon. Gentleman should not get his hopes up too much. We do not see any reason why the elections should be regarded as unsafe, but it would be unreasonable were we to disregard the evaluation by the
 
22 Jun 2004 : Column 1224
 
Electoral Commission. We have to pay respect to the timetable. The commission will report in mid-September. I have given the reasons why we need to proceed with some of the paving regulations and orders at this stage. I have set out our approach in the unlikely eventuality that the Electoral Commission will conclude that it would be unsafe to proceed on an all-postal basis. We do not anticipate that, but I felt that it would be useful to set out our approach to the House.

For the time being, we can be satisfied that all-postal ballots boosted participation. In the regions where all-postal voting was held—the north-east, east midlands, Yorkshire and the north-west—more than twice as many people voted in the European elections as did in 1999. That was an increase of almost 3 million voters. The non-pilot regions also saw increases in turnout, albeit to a lesser degree. The combined effect meant that more voters participated in the elections to the European Parliament in this country than ever before. While just 24 per cent. of people participated in 1999, this year that figure rose to 38 per cent. That equates to about 6.5 million additional votes.

So, judged by our goal of raising participation and turnout, we have now proved that all-postal voting on a wider basis is clearly one way of successfully engaging more of the public in our electoral system. With the Electoral Commission advising that all future elections should take place on an all-postal basis, it was surely right to increase the scale on which we tested out the system, and the initiative has proved its worth.

Tackling low voter turnout is neither easy nor straightforward. The reasons for not voting are complex and varied. I believe that the course that we have struck is the right one. Pilots generate evidence and teach us lessons for the future. Steps are taken to minimise any risks and this year, as previously, things overall have gone well.

Mr. David Clelland (Tyne Bridge) (Lab): My hon. Friend will have heard the Opposition Front-Bench spokesman rubbish the Electoral Commission on the question of extending all-postal votes to local government elections. He derided the Electoral Commission on the question of witness statements. Yet the Opposition motion invites the House to criticise the Government for acting against the advice of the Electoral Commission. Does that not demonstrate the nonsense of the motion and the usual doublespeak of the hon. Member for Rutland and Melton (Mr. Duncan)?

Mr. Leslie: I would never accuse the hon. Gentleman directly of hypocrisy, but he has had difficulty with consistency in his arguments. I think that he tripped up about 10 minutes into his speech and fell into saying that he did not really care what the Electoral Commission said. I have a feeling that that quotation will be around his neck for some time.

Mr. Alan Duncan rose—

Mr. Leslie: If the hon. Gentleman would like to elaborate or perhaps dig himself out of that one, I will give him the chance.

Mr. Duncan: May I invite the Minister, for the sake of honesty in this debate, to desist from the comparison
 
22 Jun 2004 : Column 1225
 
between absolute turnout this year and absolute turnout four or five years ago? The only statistical comparison that is valid is the differential turnout between areas that were all-postal and those that were not.

Mr. Leslie: Turnout did increase in the non-pilot regions by about 50 per cent; in the pilot regions it rose by more than 100 per cent. That is pretty convincing. All democrats should welcome the improvement in turnout. A derisory turnout, which gives politicians a questionable mandate and means that the views of only a small minority are represented, is surely the greater threat to our electoral system.

For our part, we will continue to try and find better ways of making it easier for people to vote. That is evidently in contrast to the Opposition parties, who seem devoid of ideas. They offer no solutions or reforms, but they constantly and opportunistically chip away at public confidence in the efforts of others to make improvements. As I said earlier, it is a great pity that, rather than addressing the real issues of reform, they choose to carp and criticise, using abuse of new ideas as a proxy for political attack. The real threat to our electoral system is the constant undermining that comes from the Opposition parties. They are perpetuating the cynicism and corrosiveness within our democracy, and will themselves be the worse for it in the long run.

2.54 pm

Mr. Paul Tyler (North Cornwall) (LD): First, I agree with the Minister that the whole House should pay tribute to the returning officers and all those who administered the electoral process for heroically dealing with the most difficult circumstances. That applies not only to the areas where the pilots took place but to all areas.

I agree with the Minister on another point. There is an urgent need to re-establish the authority and independence of the Electoral Commission. I regret very much the comments made by the Conservative spokesman. We have been consistent in our support of the Electoral Commission and I hope that the Government will take the opportunity to say that they, too, regret the extent to which they have undermined the authority of that independent commission.

My notes say that I should refer to the written statement from the PUSS at DCAF—I think that that is the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State at the Department for Constitutional Affairs—but first and foremost I should say that I regret the extent to which he has overblown his case. A more moderate response in his statement yesterday would have been helpful. His claims were ridiculous and overblown.

Of course we are all interested in increasing the turnout, and that is not just on party political grounds. When the Bill was being debated, my party was attacked for being against the extension of the pilot to four regions because it was said that the Liberal Democrats thought that it would damage our chances. In those four regions, we did exceptionally well in the local government elections. We achieved spectacular results on 10 June in Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Gateshead,
 
22 Jun 2004 : Column 1226
 
Bolton, Sheffield, Rochdale and Newcastle. We also got two additional MEPs. So our opposition was not partisan. My criticisms and comments are on principle.

I agree with the Minister that worthwhile and important reassessment has to take place of the effect on turnout. I look to the Electoral Commission to analyse the elections carefully. But anyone who pretends that the increase in turnout was solely down to the all-postal pilots is dangerously disingenuous. There were other factors, and the hon. Member for Rutland and Melton (Mr. Duncan) has referred to them.

The Minister spoils his case by referring to the turnout in the terms that he did in his statement. He said that in all four postal regions overall turnout in the European parliamentary elections was more than double that in 1999. That sounds dramatic, but the figure in the pilot regions was 42.6 per cent. and in the non-pilot regions was 37.2 per cent.—a very small margin. It is important that the Minister does not overstate his case before the Electoral Commission has done a proper analysis. We should recognise that those figures are not a ringing endorsement of all-postal voting and that such voting is not a magic wand to reverse the decline in turnout.

Moreover, the turnout came up from a lower base in the pilot regions presumably because those parts of the country were previously fiefdoms of one-party rule—especially Labour party rule. In safe seats, voters often consider that there is no point in voting. Turnout in those four regions was behind the others in 1999 because there were so many rock solid Labour majorities. That situation has changed. I gave the example of the Liberal Democrat advances. That demonstrates how the situation has changed. Clearly, the persuasive factor is not the method of voting but the impact of voting.

In the meantime, it is plainly arrogant and ignorant for the Government to ignore the evidence of confusion and potential corruption.

Mr. Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich, West) (Lab/Co-op): I accept the hon. Gentleman's point that the variation between the turnout in the all-postal areas and the non-all postal areas was not that great, but he has failed to assess correctly the impact of the increased availability of postal votes even in areas where their use was not compulsory. The hon. Gentleman will see that, partly as a result of the publicity given to the experiment and partly due to the increased awareness of the all-party machine, turnout was higher due to an increase in postal voting even in areas where it was not compulsory. So my hon. Friend the Minister's underlying argument about the impact of postal voting still holds firm in spite of the points that the hon. Gentleman made.

---