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David Taylor: Will my hon. Friend give way?

Mr. Hinchliffe: I will not give way because I know that colleagues want to contribute.

One of the things that I have learned from looking at some of the central directives is that they can be crude and simplistic and can have unintended consequences. I
 
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shall give just one example in the time that I have—waiting list targets. We come back to the activities of certain consultants. I know for a fact that some consultants wait until their waiting list levels reach a stage at which the trust will be penalised and then say to the trust managers, "Look, with certain patients you are going to be penalised. You might have your star rating affected." The patients on the waiting list end up being put into the consultant's session on a Saturday morning at a hugely increased cost to the NHS. That has happened in many parts of the country, and the Government should look into the way in which targets are skewing our approach and being exploited.

The concordat with the private sector was a fundamental error. We know that each item costs 43 per cent. more than we would have paid within the NHS. Okay, some people have gained from that. They have obtained earlier access to treatment. Some of my constituents have done so, but we have not addressed the reason why they had to wait all that time. The reason is frequently because the consultants were not on the golf course but doing private work instead of meeting clinical priorities within the NHS.

Mr. Hoyle: Will my hon. Friend give way?

Mr. Hinchliffe: I will not give way. I apologise to my hon. Friend.

The Tory motion exposes a worrying narrow view of health care, which the Government should not follow. It is a curative approach. It does not address the real issues in health.

I have spent the past year on the Health Committee investigating sexual health—some of those problems really do need to be addressed—and obesity. The message that one gets big style when one looks into public health issues is that the Tories made a fundamental error way back in the 1970s by castrating public health. In 1974 they got rid of the medical officers of health. Between 1979 and 1997 they cast aside public health. That is the real agenda.

In his conclusion, the hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire talked about setting the NHS free. We have set it free from the legacy of 1979. The consequences are still having to be addressed by this Government, who have been in power for seven years. God forbid that we ever get the Conservatives back in power, setting free the NHS and letting the market rip, as happened in the 1980s and early 1990s.

6.54 pm

Mr. Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Wakefield—yes, Wakefield.

Mr. Hinchliffe: Somewhere in Yorkshire.

Mr. Turner: Yes, somewhere in Yorkshire. It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Wakefield (Mr. Hinchliffe). I do not intend to go far down the road that he explored, but I was interested in his suggestion that family-friendly policies were a priority in the NHS when it is only since the introduction of the new GP contract that none of my GP practices is open on a Saturday morning.
 
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I wish to pursue a number of issues briefly, and the first is the question of shortages. My hon. Friends have spoken of the shortages of doctors, consultants and nurses and the need to recruit from overseas to provide an adequate supply. I refer the Minister, the hon. Member for Doncaster, Central (Ms Winterton), to the shortage of dentists in my constituency. She is familiar with that situation, having kindly visited the Denbigh House practice in my constituency on 3 March this year. I remember that she said at the time that a review would take place of the provision of dentists, because the number of NHS dentists on the island had declined significantly. I congratulate her on being the first Minister to say that access to NHS dental provision should be available on the island and that my constituents should not have to travel to the mainland for that purpose.

Sandra Gidley: The hon. Gentleman mentions travelling to the mainland to find an NHS dentist, but they are similarly rare in Hampshire. When found, they often provide care for children only on condition that the parents register privately with them.

Mr. Turner: I am indeed aware of that, because I read in the Southern Daily Echo recently that my hon. Friend the Member for New Forest, West (Mr. Swayne) was concerned about the shortage of dentists. I also know that constituents have been referred to a dentist in Southsea by NHS Direct and have travelled there to be told that their children will only be treated if the parents sign up for private dental treatment. The issue of dental provision is a serious weakness in the Government's strategy.

The chief executive of the local primary care trust wrote to me on 14 June to say that he had expected the recommendations of the Government's review

"to be available to the PCT by mid-May so that we could begin to make progress."

[Interruption.] I know that the Minister finds her colleague more interesting than me, but the chief executive also says that

"we have been advised by the Department of Health that the report is taking longer than was originally anticipated . . . We have not, as yet, been informed of the date this will be to hand."

I accept that the Minister has good intentions, but the number of NHS dentists in my constituents and in Hampshire has rapidly declined, and my constituents are suffering. I hope that in her reply she will bring up to date the remarks that she so kindly made on 3 March.

Clive Efford: The hon. Gentleman seems to want a target for the number of NHS dentists. Would he care to comment on the remarks earlier by the hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr. Lansley)? Does he expect that at the next election the Conservative party will publish a target by which their success in improving access to NHS dentistry would be measured?

Mr. Turner: The answer is simple. The Minister is charged with delivering a promise that the Prime Minister made in 2001 that within two years everyone should have access to an NHS dentist. It was the Prime Minister's target, but the Government have failed to deliver. My hon. Friend the Member for South
 
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Cambridgeshire (Mr. Lansley) explained our position on targets amply and adequately, and I do not intend to go further down that road.

Clive Efford: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Mr. Turner: I am sorry, but I do not have time to give way again.

The second point to which I would like the Minister to respond is that raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Westbury (Dr. Murrison) in European Standing Committee C on 24 March. My hon. Friend referred to the effect of the European working time directive on the number of consultants required in small hospitals—

It being Seven o'clock, the debate stood adjourned.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

Motion made, and Question put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 15 (Exempted business),

That, at this day's sitting, the motion in the name of Mr. Michael Howard relating to NHS staff recruitment and retention may be proceeded with, though opposed, until 8.00 p.m.—[Mr. Coaker.]

Question agreed to.

NHS RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION

Question again proposed, That the original words stand part of the Question.

Mr. Turner: In that Committee my hon. Friend the Member for Westbury kindly referred to my hospital, St. Mary's. Referring to me, he said, correctly:

"He is particularly worried about this issue because of St. Mary's hospital on the Isle of Wight. It is a very small hospital for very good reasons: the inaccessibility of the Isle of Wight, the difficulty of getting people to the mainland and the fact that the population doubles in the summer months."—[Official Report, European Standing Committee C, 24 March 2004; c. 28.]

What, he asked, would happen to such a hospital if the European working time directive were introduced? The Minister of State is familiar with the hospital because she visited it on 3 March. Unfortunately, however, answer came there none from Ministers in the European Standing Committee; they were unable to explain how a small hospital could employ sufficient consultants to comply with the requirements of the European working time directive. As her hon. Friends left the question unanswered, will the Minister answer it today? [Interruption.] The Government imposed the target. Labour Members seem to be worried—

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