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Clive Efford: I could not agree with my hon. Friend more on that point. Does he agree that the reporting of those incidents is essential to ensure that people are made fully aware that it is an illegal tout that is the cause of the problem? When people understand that, they will be more wary of getting into those vehicles.
Mr. McNulty: That is absolutely right. Far too often, touting is reported as a problem of the minicab or PHV sector, when it is not. Some of the most vociferous calls for more to be done to raise awareness and change the regulatory framework to stop touting—such as making the offence recordable—come from the legitimate end, which is overwhelmingly the largest, of the PHV industry. This problem is not about dodgy minicab drivers, but about unlicensed touts who should not be plying their trade in the first place. I was grateful when I went out on the exercise that not only police but benefits officers and people from a range of other public agencies were in tow. Rather than just catching touts whose cars were unroadworthy or had no insurance, those officers caught the odd person who according to their records had been in bed ill for three months, or who had been taking disability allowance and not worked for a number of years. That was a good example of joined-up working.
Some of the anomalies in the regulations that govern taxis and PHVs in and out of London still need to be addressed, as and when they are pointed out to us. This is an enormously complex area with much of the legislative and regulatory framework going back to Victorian times. We will seek to do something about those anomalies.
There is a little loophole in the Private Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998—a fairly recent piece of legislation—which we want to deal with when we get the opportunity to do so. The 1998 Act, as my hon. Friend the Member for Eltham suggested, provides a framework for the licensing of private hire operators, drivers and vehicles in London. It was introduced as a private Member's Bill with Government support. The objective was to introduce a system of licensing for private hire vehicles in London, thereby bringing the
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capital into line with much of the rest of England and Wales, where touting is less of a problem precisely because that sector has always been licensed.
The Act was framed initially in terms of giving the Secretary of State the power to appoint a licensing authority. However, under the Greater London Authority Act 1999, responsibility for private hire and taxi licensing in London was transferred from the Secretary of State to the Transport for London organisation. TFL is introducing private hire licensing in three phases. Operators must have held licences since 2001; driving licensing was introduced last year; and vehicle licensing has just been introduced earlier this year. Special arrangements are in place to ensure a smooth transition to a fully regulated system, hopefully by 2006.
TFL and the trade have requested a change to the 1998 Act in order to close an apparent loophole that allows operators and drivers to work within the licensed structure without being licensed. The existing definition of private hire vehicle requires a vehicle to be licensed if it is made available to the public. Some operators and drivers who service contracts with hospitals, schools and so forth—often serving the most vulnerable people—are avoiding licensing by using the argument that they are not making their vehicles available to the public. A number of contract workers are therefore still operating unlicensed.
TFL and others, including the GMB, have been told that the Government intend to rectify that problem as soon as parliamentary time permits. I will certainly seek to do all that I can in that regard. It may be possible to test the difficulty more readily under the law, but small areas of law like that can have profound consequences for our attempt to put a fully licensed system in place in London, so they should be dealt with at the earliest opportunity.
Significant progress has been made in our understanding of where taxis and PHVs fit into the wider transport network. That is all to the good and the excellent reports from the Transport Committee also help in that regard.
There are a variety of views about the Office of Fair Trading report, and no one who has contributed to the debate has been shy in giving the House their full understanding of it. We believe that our response underlines the fact that we need to deal more fully with certain issues such as guidance across the range of issues that I have outlined. The first key recommendation about quantity control was important. Hon. Members have stressed the significance of the local dimension, local knowledge and local understanding of local markets. We take that point entirely on board, which is why we responded to the OFT report as we did.
I hope that the OFT report and the Government's response to it has, if nothing else, highlighted the crucial importance of taxis and PHVs throughout our communities. I hope that those who have expressed an interest thus far or those with a longstanding interest in the sector will understand all that we are trying to do in respect of the wide-ranging guidance that we will be issuing to the licensing authorities. They will know how licensing authorities already restrict some controls and will see how they respond to our initial suggestions.
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We anticipate a rolling programme on a three-yearly basis. We have not yet determined the time frames. However, we are asking authorities by letter to respond by the end of March next year and we intend to respond to those responses by the end of April. The three-year rolling programme of review would start at about that time. I do not believe that the duties involved are too onerous.
Mr. Kelvin Hopkins (Luton, North) (Lab): I am sorry to have missed most of the debate, but I have heard much of what my hon. Friend has said. I agree with the thrust of what the Government are doing. I want to ensure that there is a good provision of taxis and PHVs, as many people cannot afford—or do not want—to use cars. They depend on taxis where there are no public transport services. Many people who choose not to own motor cars depend on public transport, and fill in the gaps with taxis and PHVs. It is most important that the Government promote that option.
Mr. McNulty: I do not disagree with that. I am sure that there is a good reason to explain why my hon. Friend was not present earlier, but if he had been here he would have heard my hon. Friend the Member for Brighton, Pavilion confess that he has never driven a car and that he does not have a licence. He manages very well without a car, and would like to continue to do so with the help of a strong and vibrant PHV and taxi sector.
My hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton (Linda Gilroy) spoke about Plymouth's unique position, thanks to the 1975 Act that she described. In the first instance, Plymouth council must resolve the matters that she raised. I hope that the guidance that we issue will assist in that regard, as will an exhortation from me—to put it no more strongly—to Plymouth and everywhere else that a PHV and taxi regime has an important place in any local transport plan as part of an integrated transport strategy. I await the city's responses to our requests.
Linda Gilroy: I am not sure that I heard my hon. Friend correctly earlier, but is that guidance out for consultation? If it does not cover some aspects of the operation of the market in Plymouth, will he accept representations, from me and the city council, in search of clarification?
Mr. McNulty: I hope that the guidance will be out by the summer, and I assure my hon. Friend that it will be available for consultation. I do not want to pre-empt it, or Plymouth's reaction to it. Plymouth occupies a legislatively unique position, having its own Act to cover taxis. It would be churlish of my Department not to listen to what people have to say about that narrow legislative framework, and to see what gaps there may be in the guidance.
We have discussed in some detail matters that go slightly wider than the OFT's report and the response to it from the Government and the Select Committee. The debate has been very worth while. I do not want to be too critical of the OFT report, as it came to some good conclusions that we have, broadly, taken on board.
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However, any omissions in it stem from the fact that there is not a universal and pure market for taxis and PHVs, as the situation varies between towns and licensing authorities. As the Select Committee response notes, there is wide variation in the relationship between the PHV and taxi sectors. Some people never see a hackney cab until they come to London, whereas others have no understanding of experience of minicabs.
The local peculiarities faced by each licensing authority mean that our decision to leave determinations of quantity restrictions at local level is the right way forward. I think that I heard the hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr. Chope) express agreement with that, on the grounds that it is a splendid example of the new Conservative localism.
All of a sudden everything is left to the local community. He has clearly pointed out that he understands the word "justification", although not the notion of nuance or irony, but he might just go back to the dictionary and look up the word "hubris"—I will spell it for him if he wants—in telling us how wonderful—
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