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Annabelle Ewing (Perth) (SNP): I, too, rise to support amendments Nos. 35 and 41, tabled by the hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr. Laws). As we have heard, those amendments would delete clause 4, thereby scrapping the Government's proposed tax stamp scheme. Like many hon. Members—certainly those who represent constituencies in Scotland—I have a direct whisky interest in my constituency: the headquarters of the Edrington Group is based in Perth. I can also lay claim to the oldest, albeit the smallest, distillery in Scotland—the Glenturret distillery, just outside Crieff, which is also in my constituency.

We have heard much about the importance of the Scotch whisky industry to the Scottish economy and that some 40,000 jobs are dependent on the industry throughout the length and breadth of Scotland. Indeed, it is one of Scotland's premier industries, so it is absolutely incredible that, notwithstanding all the uncertainties about the scheme, the UK Government still propose to go ahead with a damaging tax stamp scheme that has won no support outside the Treasury in London. I should have thought that the Government's role is to support our key industries, not actively to adopt measures that will damage them.
 
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As the debate has unfolded over the past months, we have heard pronouncement after pronouncement against the adoption of the scheme in principle at this time. All the key players have made those pronouncements, including the industry, the unions, the Scottish Parliament and the Select Committee on Scottish Affairs. Even Scotland's estimable First Minister expressed his disappointment that the UK Government would proceed.

When I said a moment ago that the Treasury had no allies, I was perhaps not being 100 per cent. accurate because it has one ally—the Scottish Socialist party. It was the only party in the Scottish Parliament that failed to support a cross-party motion that called on the UK Government to reverse the damaging scheme. The fact that the Government have to rely on the support of the Trots says a lot about the unsoundness of their proposal.

Why is there such united opposition in Scotland? The introduction of the tax stamp scheme is seen as damaging to the industry because the case on which it is based involves figures that have been criticised as unreliable. We have heard today about the House of Lords Economic Affairs Committee report and previously about the comments of the National Audit Office—the Economic Secretary is smiling about that for some reason. There has been no proper rigorous analysis of the likely effectiveness of the proposals. Indeed, the Economic Secretary admitted on Second Reading that the Government intended to go ahead with the tax stamp scheme despite the fact that no proper assessment had been made of the risk of counterfeiting. At the same time, however, the UK Government were quick to reject out of hand the industry's entirely reasonable alternative proposals.

It is correct to say that Government amendments Nos. 50 to 70 offer the possibility of mitigating the significant cost of the scheme to the industry, but I would say no more than that, not least due to the lack of detail and the absence of any assurance from the Economic Secretary tonight about the back-label option. The fundamental point remains that the UK Government have not made an unarguable case for legislating for tax stamps in principle at this time. It is clear that tax stamps will cost the industry; the question is, "How much?"

Amendment Nos. 35 and 41 represent one last opportunity to scrap the daft and damaging proposals, which is why my Scottish National party colleagues and I will support them. I urge Scottish Labour Members to consider doing the same because in a democratic society, surely the vote should follow the voice. For once, I would have thought it would be important for them to put the interests of their constituents and country ahead of those of the London Chancellor.

Mr. Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): It is quite clear that the case for tax stamps on bottles of spirits has not been made. Having said that, I am pleased that the Economic Secretary has held discussions with the spirits industry and tabled amendments that allow for the alternative option of incorporating the stamps on labels. I suggested in Committee that that option would not be as bad as the strip stamp proposal, so I am pleased that the amendments have been tabled.
 
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Although the alternative proposal of incorporating stamps on labels would be less costly for the industry, I am still firmly of the view that the case for tax stamps has not been made for other reasons. For example, the industry will still face the problems and cost involved in keeping the tax stamps secure, and it might yet be faced with the cost of buying the stamps up front.

In response to the Scottish Affairs Committee report, the Government said that they were

"seeking to implement tax stamps without requiring upfront payment for stamps".

That sounded good, but they went on to say:

"Realising this ambition is not straightforward".

That wording is worrying. The Government want to pass the Bill without giving us any assurances that they will come up with a scheme for the deferred payment of duty. In fact, they may not be able to come up with a scheme for deferred payment of duty, which is extremely worryingly and reinforces the argument that it is premature to pass legislation today to introduce a tax stamp scheme.

Despite all the spin in the press over the weekend, and even though they have undertaken to consider the label stamp alternative, the Government have not abandoned the idea of putting strip stamps on top of bottles. Even if the Chancellor's amendments are made, clause 4 would still allow him to put strip stamps on top of bottles and compel the industry to buy the stamps up front. The Government have not given a satisfactory answer on the threat of forgery. The experience of other countries shows that if tax stamps are introduced, high-quality forgeries will quickly appear. An experienced customs officer could doubtless spot the forgeries, but a tax stamp scheme is meant to ensure that retailers and customers can tell at a glance whether duty has been paid on a bottle. Given that high-quality forgeries are likely to appear, they will probably be good enough to fool retailers and customers, so the scheme would fail.

There is a wide range of estimates on the extent of duty fraud, and that is no basis on which to introduce tax stamps. The Government should establish a methodology to provide an accurate estimate for the levels of fraud. Once they have done so, they should examine the many alternative anti-fraud measures proposed by the industry. I shall vote for amendment No. 35, because the case for tax stamps has not been made. I am pleased that the Government amendments leave the door open so that they can adopt the industry's suggestion of label stamps. I shall not oppose them because they would make the position less bad, but even with those improvements the case for tax stamps has not been made. The Government have not dealt adequately with security costs, the fact that the industry might have to pay for tax stamps up front and the risk of forged stamps, so I appeal to the House to vote to ditch clause 4.

Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): I welcome the fact that my hon. Friend the Member for Yeovil (Mr. Laws) has tabled amendments Nos. 35 and 41, as they allow us, even at this late stage, to say no to the Government proposal.

The Government have not made the case for imposing such a burden on the industry, but they have tabled amendments to improve a bad situation. My hon.
 
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Friend reminded the Economic Secretary of his wish to address the concerns of smaller producers and small businesses that produce specialist spirits in small production runs. The Government have not yet shown how they plan to address concerns about the burden on that sector, and there is a limited chance that it will be involved in duty fraud or importing and substitution fraud. Those businesses produce spirits that may, or may not, be aimed at the export market, so they will not know at the time of production whether they want to put labels on the bottles. There will therefore be added problems in the production process.

I hope that in their discussions with the industry the Government will propose ways of tackling the concerns of one or two-person businesses with small production runs of specialist spirits. Fraud is not a major concern for them, and they do not show up in the statistics on the problem. If the House supports the amendments tabled by my hon. Friend it can show that the Government have not yet made the case for their proposals.

Mr. Laws: It was useful to have an update from the Economic Secretary on the discussions he has been holding with the Scotch Whisky Association and the wider industry about the Government's proposals. We welcome the Government amendments moved today, which are certainly an improvement on the proposals that the Government put to us when we debated the issue in April. However, two facts remain that make us inclined still to press our amendment to a Division.

First, there is still no guarantee that the Government will not go ahead with the same proposals that were put to us before and rejected by all the bodies that considered them, including the all-party Scottish Affairs Committee. There is no guarantee that those measures will not go through. Secondly and most decisively, I come back to the conclusion of the Scottish Affairs Committee, which stated in its report just a couple of months ago that, without accurate figures on the extent of fraud, it could be considered precipitate to the point of reckless to continue. We still have no reliable information on which to base an assessment of the balance of costs and benefits. For that reason we intend to press our amendment No. 35 to a Division.

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