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Health Spending

4. Mr. Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): When he last discussed with his Cabinet and Welsh Assembly colleagues the per capita level of health spending in Wales. [181915]

The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Peter Hain): I regularly meet the Assembly First Minister and the health service in Wales is one of the topics that we frequently discuss.
 
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Mr. Turner: As the Secretary of State will know, expenditure per head in Wales is 9 per cent. above that in England, yet there are worse health outcomes in Newport, Monmouthshire than in Newport, Isle of Wight. Is that because the number of administrators has increased by 15 per cent. since 1996?

Mr. Hain: I do not accept the hon. Gentleman's comparison. In fact, under the Welsh Assembly Government, many more nurses have been recruited. Indeed, there are 4,061 more qualified nurses and 305 more qualified equivalent consultants under Labour, after years of cuts that involved hospital closures, the sacking of nurses and doctors and a decrease in hospital beds under the Conservatives. Wales is moving forward under Labour with increased health investment and more treatment for the patients of Wales.

Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Is not health spending per head one of the silliest ways of measuring health spending? Should not health spending match health need? In the words of Matthew, one of the children in the House today from Llwyncelyn primary school, "Can we have more money for the hospital in Llwynypia?"

Mr. Hain: I am sure that the Minister with responsibility for health in Wales will look seriously at Matthew's bid, transmitted through my hon. Friend, but the truth is that, whether in his constituency or across Wales, there has been a massive increase—a near doubling—of the Welsh health budget under Labour after years of Conservative cuts. If the Conservatives won the next general election, the result of their patients passport policy would be an immediate cut of £60 million in the Welsh health budget. That would mean either 2,400 nurses or 660 consultants losing their jobs. What a dreadful policy to inflict on the people of Wales.

Mr. Bill Wiggin (Leominster) (Con): Despite the extra health spending, does the Secretary of State agree with the First Minister that choice in the NHS is not relevant in Wales?

Mr. Hain: The real choice for the people of Wales is between Tory cuts, privatisation and charges and Labour investment, resulting in more nurses and doctors, more facilities and more patients being seen. About 250,000 more patients are being seen in Wales under the Labour Government. That is a fantastic record compared with a miserable Tory record.

Mr. Wiggin: Perhaps the Secretary of State can explain why the number of finished consultancy episodes has decreased by 1 per cent. since 1999.

Mr. Hain: It is time that the hon. Gentleman asked some sensible questions at Welsh questions—questions with some relevance to the people of Wales. The fact is that, under the Labour Government, we have seen nursing and midwifery places increase by 25 per cent. compared with the Tory policy of cutting them by 25 per cent. We have seen a doubling of investment in the NHS in Wales and, as I have said, waiting times for key procedures coming down. Ten new hospitals have been
 
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pledged and some are already open. That is a really good record. Of course there is room for improvement and the policy will be driven forward.

Mr. Wiggin: If the record is so good, why have waiting lists increased by 82 per cent. since 1999?

Mr. Hain: The truth is that 250,000 more patients have been seen in Wales under Labour than was the case under the Tories. If we set that against the background of a population of 3 million, that is an extraordinary achievement. It has been built on the back of record investment, and the recruitment of more nurses and doctors compared with the Tory programme of cuts, privatisation and charges. That is what the people of Wales would get if the Tories won the next election.

Llew Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): As my right hon. Friend will know, in Blaenau Gwent we have some of the worst health problems in Wales, including heart and respiratory diseases, lung cancer and mental health problems. At the same time, we have difficulty in attracting the appropriate number of doctors to the community. Will he say what is being done to rectify that wrong?

Mr. Hain: Under this Labour Government, health services in Blaenau Gwent and elsewhere in Wales have improved. My hon. Friend has been a consistent champion for his constituency, which is one of the poorest parts of Wales, and we obviously need even more improvement. That will be achieved in future years, and I hope that he will continue to support it.

Dentistry

5. Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby) (Con): What recent discussions he has had with National Assembly for Wales Ministers on funding for dentistry in Wales. [181916]

7. Mr. Elfyn Llwyd (Meirionnydd Nant Conwy) (PC): What discussions he has had with the First Minister of the National Assembly for Wales on ways of increasing the number of students studying dentistry; and if he will make a statement. [181919]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Don Touhig): I discussed dentistry in Wales with the Assembly Health Minister on 16 June, at one of our regular bilateral meetings.

Mr. Robathan: Does the Minister remember that the Prime Minister said, in September 1999, that in two years everyone in the UK would be able to have access to an NHS dentist? However, only just over 50 per cent. of the Welsh population are registered with an NHS dentist. How does the Minister square those two facts? When will the people of Wales be able to get an NHS dentist?

Mr. Touhig: The Welsh dental initiative, a funding scheme to increase access to NHS dentistry, has provided more than 23,000 extra places in the NHS in Wales in the past 12 months. We need no lessons from the Conservatives about the NHS in Wales. When they
 
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were in power, they closed 70 hospitals, slashed nursing and midwifery training and cut a third of general acute beds. Eighteen years of under-investment—that is what we are putting right.

Mr. Llwyd: To be fair, the reality is that the crisis in NHS dentistry in Wales has been going on for about 10 or 12 years. However, this Government have been in power for nearly seven years. Will the Minister consider two very important initiatives? First, it is very important to incentivise students to study dentistry. Secondly, rural practices in particular should be assisted to take on trainees so that they can stay on in due course. Those two important measures could easily be put in place. I urge the Minister to discuss them with the First Minister.

Mr. Touhig: I am aware of those initiatives, which the hon. Gentleman has raised a number of times in the past. Indeed, the all-Wales work force development steering group has given support in principle to expanding the numbers of undergraduate dental students in Wales. A business case for that expansion has been passed to the Assembly and is under consideration. I am also aware that the hon. Gentleman met my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, who has taken up the matter with the First Minister. I hope that we will be able to take the agenda forward.

Mr. Huw Edwards (Monmouth) (Lab): Will my hon. Friend the Minister acknowledge that the Assembly's Health Minister has put £5.3 million into dentistry in Wales? Indeed, a new practice was opened in Brecon road in Abergavenny last November by Dr. Mohamed Gazi. Will my hon. Friend join me in congratulating him, and wishing him every success in providing, under the NHS, the sort of service that local people deserve?

Mr. Touhig: Indeed, eight new dental practices offering NHS treatment have been opened in Wales. In north Wales, they are at Barmouth, Wrexham and Llanrwst; in mid-Wales, they are at Machynlleth and Crickhowell; and in west Wales, they are at Carmarthen and Abergavenny—the area to which my hon. Friend referred—and Merthyr Tydfil.

Denzil Davies (Llanelli) (Lab): Is my hon. Friend aware that AXA Insurance and Denplan are the main private providers of dentistry in Britain, with about 30 per cent. of the dentistry market? In Llanelli, the market share is close to 100 per cent. If the trend continues and is not arrested, does he agree that there will be very little left of NHS dentistry, in Wales or Britain as a whole?

Mr. Touhig: I take my right hon. Friend's point very seriously, and I am aware that we have discussed it in the past. However, the Welsh dental initiative provides grants of up to £50,000 to practices in designated areas and is aimed at increasing NHS dentistry provision in Wales. Grants of up to £20,000 are available to establish new vocational training practices. Working in partnership with colleagues in the Assembly, we are seeking to push the agenda forward but, as I said in reply to the hon. Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy (Mr. Llwyd), we have a long road to travel to make up for the under-investment of 18 years of Tory Government.
 
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