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Mr. Oaten: Given that other mainland European countries have overcome that problem, is the Foreign Secretary under any pressure from other European Union countries to come to a speedy resolution on this matter so that intercept communications can be used in any evidence throughout mainland Europe?

Mr. Straw: I had no pressure from other European countries when I was Home Secretary and have had none since I have been Foreign Secretary, and my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary says that he has had none either. Each country differs: some barely use intercept at all for any purpose, which is a separate issue and why we are worried about their capability to deal with terrorist threats; other countries use intercept more widely. Many issues require careful consideration before we come to a view. All that lies within the context that if it is possible to arrive at a solution where intercept evidence can be adduced safely without undermining the integrity and capability of everything else being done by way of intercept, that will be fine, but we are certainly not there yet.

The right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden asked about redaction, suggesting that it may have been excessive. I can say only that I know to my certain knowledge that the Committee is assiduous in ensuring that redactions are permitted only where they genuinely meet the needs of national security. Speaking from recollection, I think that the law provides that if a redaction is proposed by the Prime Minister and with which the Committee disagrees, the fact of the disagreement, although obviously not the content of the redaction, can be made known to the House. As I pointed out last year, the only time when I intervened on a proposed redaction was to refuse to allow one, rather than the reverse.

The right hon. Gentleman also raised GCHQ and its programme. There were criticisms of the programme for building the very successful new building. Those criticisms have been answered in the response to the National Audit Office report, and most of them were dealt with as soon as they became known, which is why the latter part of the programme was successful.

On the subject of GCHQ, I draw the House's attention to a letter sent by the Attorney-General, Lord Goldsmith, to Lord Morris of Aberavon, in which he sets out the circumstances of the discontinuation of the prosecution of Katharine Gun. In that letter, which has
 
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been placed in the Library, my right hon. and noble Friend draws attention to paragraph 72 of the Intelligence and Security Committee report, which states:

"We agree that the case had to be discontinued for evidential reasons not in any way related to the Attorney General's advice on the lawfulness of invading Iraq."

Alan Howarth: Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Attorney-General came under some rather unfair criticism over that matter and that those who suggested that the reasons for the discontinuation of the prosecution had to do with the content of his advice on the legitimacy of the war against Iraq ought to withdraw what they said and should, indeed, apologise.

Mr. Straw: I agree. The criticism made of the Attorney-General was completely unfounded. Anybody who knows him will know that even the thought that his integrity was in question should never have been aired.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Rother Valley referred to the introduction of what, frankly, happened before, when we responded seriatim to the recommendations made in reports. That was an omission: it should have happened before, and we are sorry that it did not.

The hon. Member for Winchester (Mr. Oaten) gave us an inadvertent admission of Liberal Democrat confusion, with which we are all so familiar. He talked in the round—we are familiar with that, too, when it comes to Liberal Democrat policy—but went on to talk about recognising the constraints of the real world. I welcome him to the club of the real world, and we look forward to the Liberal Democrats straightening up some of their policies in future to take account of the fact that the world has changed. If they wish to present themselves as a serious alternative Government, they have to acknowledge the responsibilities that go with that. If, however, they wish to carry on in permanent opposition, which is fine by me, they can continue in their present comfort zone, but they should not insinuate that they have any right to pass comment on those who are or those who wish to be in Government.

I apologise to the right hon. Member for East Hampshire (Mr. Mates) for not being here to hear his speech. He said that trust is at the heart of intelligence gathering. That is absolutely true, and there has to be trust all round. There has to be trust within the agencies—that is why the ring of secrecy is so important—trust in those who monitor them and trust between those within the agencies and those who are responsible for them, especially senior Ministers and the Prime Minister. I believe that we have done everything we can to maintain that trust.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, East and Musselburgh (Dr. Strang) asked about BBC Monitoring. He will be aware that I informed the Foreign Affairs Committee on 28 June that from 2005–06, the FCO will reduce its funding for BBC Monitoring by £2 million to £5 million per annum, but overall stakeholder funding for BBC Monitoring will remain at its current level, with the difference made up by other stakeholders and the BBC Monitoring reserve. The Cabinet Office has commissioned a strategic review of BBC Monitoring, which will report by the end of this year. Future funding will be determined by the outcome of that review.
 
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Several hon. Members raised the treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo bay and at Abu Ghraib. We take very seriously our responsibilities in respect of Guantanamo bay detainees. From January 2002 to March 2004, seven visits were made by British officials to check on the welfare of the British detainees, and another visit is due to take place shortly. Whenever visits take place, we ensure that families are informed of the outcome.

Mr. Arbuthnot: In view of the fact that the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, the hon. Member for Sunderland, South (Mr. Mullin), has acknowledged that the United States does not accept the applicability of the Geneva conventions, while we think that the conventions should apply to those at Guantanamo bay, does the Foreign Secretary agree with the consequence, namely, that we believe that detainees at Guantanamo bay should have legal advice available to them?

Mr. Straw: Yes. Speaking specifically in respect of our detainees, we have said that the provision of legal advice is a necessary part of any fair trial system—it is almost a sine qua non. The detainees there have not received legal advice, even though one or two of them are in the trial system. That is the background to the recent appeal to the Supreme Court, and it has been one aspect of our disagreements with the United States Government about the fairness of the trial process offered. We have repeatedly said that British detainees should either be tried as soon as possible according to principles that are recognised to be fair, or be returned to the UK. That remains our position and it has been the subject of considerable discussion between ourselves and the United States ever since Guantanamo bay received British detainees.

The hon. Member for Chichester (Mr. Tyrie) asked about prisoners of war who were handed over by UK forces to the United States. Three hundred and forty-one were so handed over in April 2003. The United States subsequently released all but three: two of the three were handed over to the legal custody of the Iraqi authorities on 30 June, although physically they remain in US custody, held on behalf of the Iraqis; and the other is now detained as a security internee in UK custody. I hope that that satisfactorily answers the hon. Gentleman's question.

Mr. Tyrie: Does the Foreign Secretary accept that we have an enduring duty of care towards the detainees who are still in custody, so we have a direct interest in the conditions and abuses in Abu Ghraib?

Mr. Straw: I do not want to go into detail about the nature of our duty of care, but our power to hold detainees, save for security internees held under the letter from Secretary Powell to the Security Council attached to resolution 1546, ceased on 30 June. Of the 341 detainees, 338 were released by the US—so that was the end of that matter—and of the remaining three, as I have explained, one is a security internee under what amounts to an annexe under UN Security Council resolution 1546, and the other two are in the custody of the Iraqi interim Government. Our power ended, because our powers as occupying powers finished on 30 June.
 
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The hon. Member for Chichester and the hon. Member for Newark (Patrick Mercer) made comparisons with the United States. Scrutiny of the Executive in this country is, in my judgment, at least as high as scrutiny of the United States Executive. We have a very different system because we are members of Parliament, whereas members of the US Executive are, as everyone knows, constitutionally separate from what amounts to the Parliament. In this country, Ministers responsible for intelligence and security agencies—my right hon. Friends the Home Secretary and the Prime Minister and myself—are interrogated weekly, sometimes daily, on these issues, which is in sharp contrast to the position in the United States, where the Head of State never appears before Congress and rarely, if ever, gives an extended press conference. Others undertake those duties, so accountability is infinitely greater here, and takes place day by day, week by week.

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