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Mr. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Cotswold) (Con): The Chancellor of the Exchequer has painted a rosy picture of the economy this afternoon. Can he explain what he is doing about last month's almost record balance of payments deficit of £3.6 billion—or, for that matter, why the savings ratio has halved under his Administration?
Mr. Brown: If the hon. Gentleman looks at the American trade deficit, he will see it is a great deal higher than ours, and I suppose that he would say that the American economy is moving forward with one of the highest growth rates in the industrialised world. I remind the House that he has said:
"I give the Chancellor credit for achieving his predicted growth rate this year".—[Official Report, 23 March 2004; Vol. 419, c. 775.]
He really should use his own questions, and not those given to him by Conservative Front Benchers.
12 Jul 2004 : Column 1156
Point of Order
5.2 pm
Mr. Humfrey Malins (Woking) (Con): On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I wonder whether I may seek your guidance in relation to this afternoon's proceedings. The Joint Committee on Human Rights published its report on the new clauses of the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, etc.) Bill a week ago. It condemned the Government for introducing what my noble Friend Baroness Anelay called a "torrent" of new clauses at such a late stage, saying that the practice undermined proper democratic scrutiny of the human rights implications.
Even Lord Rooker, a Minister, said that the Government's treatment of the Committee in the other place
"could be bordering on contempt",
and he stressed the need for this House to have
"plenty of time to talk about the recommitted issues".—[Official Report, House of Lords, 6 July 2004; Vol. 663, c. 723.]
The Bill is almost twice the length it was. With possible Divisions, we have perhaps only three and a half hours to discuss major new clauses. Given the way we have been treated, I ask you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, whether there is any way in which we can today debate at greater length both the programme motion and the clauses before us. Conservative Members are terribly upset that the House is being treated with such disdain by the Government.
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): The House has heard what the hon. Gentleman says, but he must know that that is not a matter on which the Chair can rule. Matters such as those relating to the motion before the House are determined under Sessional Orders, and the Chair has no scope to alter its terms.
12 Jul 2004 : Column 1157
Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, etc.) Bill (Programme) (No.3)
Motion made, and Question put forthwith, pursuant to Orders [28 June 2001 and 6 November 2003],
That the Programme Orders of 17th December 2003 and 1st March 2004 relating to the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, etc.) Bill be supplemented as follows—
Consideration of Lords Amendments
1. Proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments shall be taken at this day's sitting in the order shown in the following table and shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the time specified.
| Proceedings | Time for conclusion of proceedings |
| Amendments Nos 28, 29, 42 to 62 | 1 hour 15 minutes after the commencement of proceedings |
| Amendments Nos 15, 30, 31, 17, 18, 14, 16 | 3 hours 30 minutes after the commencement of proceedings |
| Amendments Nos 21 to 27, 19, 20, 32, 40, 41, 33, 34, 1 to 13, 35 to 39, 63 to 69 | 10.00 p.m. |
Subsequent stages
2. Any further Message from the Lords may be considered forthwith without any question being put.
3. The proceedings on any further Message from the Lords shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour after their commencement—[Margaret Moran.]
The House divided: Ayes 244, Noes 125.
AYES
Ainger, Nick
Alexander, Douglas
Allen, Graham
Anderson, rh Donald (Swansea E)
Armstrong, rh Ms Hilary
Atherton, Ms Candy
Atkins, Charlotte
Bailey, Adrian
Baird, Vera
Banks, Tony
Barnes, Harry
Barron, rh Kevin
Beard, Nigel
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Miss Anne
Benn, rh Hilary
Bennett, Andrew
Benton, Joe (Bootle)
Berry, Roger
Betts, Clive
Blears, Ms Hazel
Bradley, rh Keith (Withington)
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, rh Nicholas (Newcastle E Wallsend)
Browne, Desmond
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burnham, Andy
Byers, rh Stephen
Campbell, Alan (Tynemouth)
Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge)
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)
Casale, Roger
Challen, Colin
Chapman, Ben (Wirral S)
Chaytor, David
Clapham, Michael
Clark, Mrs Helen (Peterborough)
Clark, Dr. Lynda (Edinburgh Pentlands)
Clark, Paul (Gillingham)
Clarke, rh Tom (Coatbridge & Chryston)
Clelland, David
Coffey, Ms Ann
Colman, Tony
Connarty, Michael
Corbyn, Jeremy
Corston, Jean
Cousins, Jim
Cox, Tom (Tooting)
Cranston, Ross
Crausby, David
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Jim (Coventry S)
Cunningham, Tony (Workington)
Dalyell, Tam
Davey, Valerie (Bristol W)
Davidson, Ian
Davies, rh Denzil (Llanelli)
Davies, Geraint (Croydon C)
Dean, Mrs Janet
Denham, rh John
Dismore, Andrew
Dobbin, Jim (Heywood)
Doran, Frank
Drew, David (Stroud)
Eagle, Angela (Wallasey)
Edwards, Huw
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Ennis, Jeff (Barnsley E)
Farrelly, Paul
Fisher, Mark
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Fitzsimons, Mrs Lorna
Flint, Caroline
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings & Rye)
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gapes, Mike (Ilford S)
Gerrard, Neil
Gibson, Dr. Ian
Gilroy, Linda
Godsiff, Roger
Goggins, Paul
Griffiths, Jane (Reading E)
Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)
Grogan, John
Hanson, David
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harris, Tom (Glasgow Cathcart)
Healey, John
Henderson, Ivan (Harwich)
Hepburn, Stephen
Heppell, John
Hesford, Stephen
Heyes, David
Hodge, Margaret
Hood, Jimmy (Clydesdale)
Hope, Phil (Corby)
Howarth, rh Alan (Newport E)
Howarth, George (Knowsley N & Sefton E)
Howells, Dr. Kim
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Humble, Mrs Joan
Hurst, Alan (Braintree)
Hutton, rh John
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Illsley, Eric
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Helen (Hillsborough)
Jamieson, David
Jenkins, Brian
Johnson, Alan (Hull W)
Johnson, Miss Melanie (Welwyn Hatfield)
Jones, Helen (Warrington N)
Jones, Lynne (Selly Oak)
Jowell, rh Tessa
Joyce, Eric (Falkirk W)
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keen, Alan (Feltham)
Keen, Ann (Brentford)
Kelly, Ruth (Bolton W)
Kennedy, Jane (Wavertree)
Khabra, Piara S.
Kidney, David
King, Ms Oona (Bethnal Green & Bow)
Knight, Jim (S Dorset)
Kumar, Dr. Ashok
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Lammy, David
Lawrence, Mrs Jackie
Laxton, Bob (Derby N)
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Levitt, Tom (High Peak)
Lewis, Ivan (Bury S)
Lewis, Terry (Worsley)
Linton, Martin
Love, Andrew
Luke, Iain (Dundee E)
Lyons, John (Strathkelvin)
McAvoy, Thomas
McCafferty, Chris
McDonagh, Siobhain
MacDougall, John
McFall, rh John
McIsaac, Shona
McKechin, Ann
McKenna, Rosemary
McNulty, Tony
McWalter, Tony
McWilliam, John
Mahon, Mrs Alice
Marris, Rob (Wolverh'ton SW)
Marsden, Gordon (Blackpool S)
Marshall-Andrews, Robert
Martlew, Eric
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Miliband, David
Miller, Andrew
Mole, Chris
Moonie, Dr. Lewis
Moran, Margaret
Morris, rh Estelle
Mountford, Kali
Mullin, Chris
Munn, Ms Meg
Murphy, Denis (Wansbeck)
Murphy, Jim (Eastwood)
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
O'Brien, Bill (Normanton)
O'Brien, Mike (N Warks)
Olner, Bill
O'Neill, Martin
Owen, Albert
Perham, Linda
Picking, Anne
Pickthall, Colin
Pike, Peter (Burnley)
Plaskitt, James
Pollard, Kerry
Pond, Chris (Gravesham)
Pope, Greg (Hyndburn)
Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)
Primarolo, rh Dawn
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Ken
Purnell, James
Quin, rh Joyce
Quinn, Lawrie
Rammell, Bill
Rapson, Syd (Portsmouth N)
Raynsford, rh Nick
Reid, rh Dr. John (Hamilton N & Bellshill)
Robertson, John (Glasgow Anniesland)
Ross, Ernie (Dundee W)
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, Joan
Ryan, Joan (Enfield N)
Salter, Martin
Sarwar, Mohammad
Savidge, Malcolm
Sedgemore, Brian
Shaw, Jonathan
Sheerman, Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Singh, Marsha
Skinner, Dennis
Smith, rh Andrew (Oxford E)
Smith, Angela (Basildon)
Smith, rh Chris (Islington S & Finsbury)
Smith, Geraldine (Morecambe & Lunesdale)
Smith, Jacqui (Redditch)
Southworth, Helen
Spellar, rh John
Squire, Rachel
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Stewart, David (Inverness E & Lochaber)
Stewart, Ian (Eccles)
Stoate, Dr. Howard
Taylor, Dari (Stockton S)
Thomas, Gareth (Clwyd W)
Thomas, Gareth (Harrow W)
Timms, Stephen
Truswell, Paul
Turner, Dr. Desmond (Brighton Kemptown)
Turner, Neil (Wigan)
Twigg, Derek (Halton)
Twigg, Stephen (Enfield)
Tynan, Bill (Hamilton S)
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Wareing, Robert N.
Watts, David
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Williams, rh Alan (Swansea W)
Winnick, David
Winterton, Ms Rosie (Doncaster C)
Woodward, Shaun
Worthington, Tony
Wright, Anthony D. (Gt Yarmouth)
Wyatt, Derek
Tellers for the Ayes:
Ms Bridget Prentice and
Vernon Coaker
NOES
Allan, Richard
Ancram, rh Michael
Arbuthnot, rh James
Atkinson, David (Bour'mth E)
Atkinson, Peter (Hexham)
Bacon, Richard
Baldry, Tony
Barker, Gregory
Baron, John (Billericay)
Barrett, John
Bellingham, Henry
Beresford, Sir Paul
Blunt, Crispin
Bottomley, Peter (Worthing W)
Brady, Graham
Brake, Tom (Carshalton)
Brazier, Julian
Breed, Colin
Brooke, Mrs Annette L.
Browning, Mrs Angela
Burns, Simon
Burt, Alistair
Butterfill, Sir John
Calton, Mrs Patsy
Carmichael, Alistair
Chapman, Sir Sydney (Chipping Barnet)
Chope, Christopher
Clarke, rh Kenneth (Rushcliffe)
Collins, Tim
Conway, Derek
Davey, Edward (Kingston)
Davis, rh David (Haltemprice & Howden)
Ewing, Annabelle
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Michael
Field, Mark (Cities of London & Westminster)
Flight, Howard
Flook, Adrian
Forth, rh Eric
Foster, Don (Bath)
Garnier, Edward
Gidley, Sandra
Gillan, Mrs Cheryl
Goodman, Paul
Green, Damian (Ashford)
Grieve, Dominic
Hague, rh William
Hammond, Philip
Hawkins, Nick
Heath, David
Hendry, Charles
Hoban, Mark (Fareham)
Hogg, rh Douglas
Holmes, Paul
Horam, John (Orpington)
Howard, rh Michael
Howarth, Gerald (Aldershot)
Jackson, Robert (Wantage)
Jenkin, Bernard
Keetch, Paul
Kennedy, rh Charles (Ross Skye & Inverness)
Key, Robert (Salisbury)
Knight, rh Greg (E Yorkshire)
Laing, Mrs Eleanor
Lamb, Norman
Lansley, Andrew
Laws, David (Yeovil)
Leigh, Edward
Liddell-Grainger, Ian
Lidington, David
Lilley, rh Peter
Llwyd, Elfyn
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter (M-Worcs)
Mackay, rh Andrew
McLoughlin, Patrick
Malins, Humfrey
May, Mrs Theresa
Mercer, Patrick
Mitchell, Andrew (Sutton Coldfield)
Moss, Malcolm
Oaten, Mark (Winchester)
O'Brien, Stephen (Eddisbury)
Ottaway, Richard
Page, Richard
Paice, James
Paterson, Owen
Portillo, rh Michael
Prisk, Mark (Hertford)
Redwood, rh John
Rendel, David
Robertson, Hugh (Faversham & M-Kent)
Robertson, Laurence (Tewk'b'ry)
Rosindell, Andrew
Russell, Bob (Colchester)
Salmond, Alex
Sanders, Adrian
Sayeed, Jonathan
Selous, Andrew
Shepherd, Richard
Simpson, Keith (M-Norfolk)
Soames, Nicholas
Spicer, Sir Michael
Spring, Richard
Stanley, rh Sir John
Steen, Anthony
Swire, Hugo (E Devon)
Tapsell, Sir Peter
Taylor, Ian (Esher)
Taylor, Matthew (Truro)
Taylor, Sir Teddy
Teather, Sarah
Thurso, John
Turner, Andrew (Isle of Wight)
Tyler, Paul (N Cornwall)
Tyrie, Andrew
Watkinson, Angela
Weir, Michael
Whittingdale, John
Williams, Hywel (Caernarfon)
Winterton, Ann (Congleton)
Winterton, Sir Nicholas (Macclesfield)
Wishart, Pete
Yeo, Tim (S Suffolk)
Young, rh Sir George
Tellers for the Noes:
Mr. John Randall and
Mr. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown
Question accordingly agreed to.
12 Jul 2004 : Column 1160
12 Jul 2004 : Column 1161
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