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Mr. Steve Webb (Northavon) (LD): The Deputy Prime Minister mentioned the regional control centres for the fire service. If he is determined to pursue that policy, I draw his attention to the situation in the south-west, where the Avon fire brigade headquarters at Lansdown has the capacity to serve the entire south-west, but because it is a public sector building the Government may insist on a PFI and refuse to use an existing public sector asset. Can he assure us that if a good public sector asset exists and could be used, he will use it?

The Deputy Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point, as he often does on such matters. We are looking at a range of options, although some fire authorities have developed more centralised control rooms and that will have some influence on our judgments for each region.

Ms Karen Buck (Regent's Park and Kensington, North) (Lab): I warmly welcome the extension of the neighbourhood renewal fund and the additional investment in housing. In my constituency, half of our council housing stock has been lost over the years and former right-to-buy properties resell for up to £400,000. My constituents face a crisis of affordability, overcrowding and homelessness. Can my right hon. Friend assure me that the extra investment will be distributed fairly within regions? Will he ask for an urgent review of the sub-regional allocations to ensure that constituents such as mine benefit properly from their share of the extra housing investment?

The Deputy Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes some important points about new neighbourhood development and housing, and I am well aware of them. We will increase social housing from 19,000 to some 29,000, which is a fair increase. We are aware that the problem is huge and we will try to find what resources we can to meet it. To be honest, I know that what I have announced today will not solve every housing problem, but it will be a major step towards doing much more about it.

Mr. Michael Jack (Fylde) (Con): At a recent meeting of Members from both sides of the House, support was given to the Deputy Prime Minister's objective of increasing the supply of affordable housing in the north-west. At the same meeting, concern was expressed that outside the renewal pathfinder area, his policies on new housing starts were inhibiting the flow of affordable housing. Will he review that policy, so that affordable housing stock can increase all over the north-west?

The Deputy Prime Minister: As I understand it, no moratorium is suggested and 13,000 or more could be built. The resources available are an important factor, as are the prices and subsidies we provide. The level of efficiency will determine the amount of resources. As the
 
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right hon. Gentleman knows, many of the decisions will be taken by regional boards. The north-west wants more accountable decision-making, and that is why we will decentralise decisions to the regional housing boards.

Lynne Jones (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): The additional 10,000 new social homes will be a good start, but even my right hon. Friend has accepted that that figure is inadequate. In Birmingham alone, we need an extra 3,000 homes a year for the next five years. Those needs are urgent: when will the Government produce their proposals for meeting the Barker recommendation of 26,000 new social homes a year?

The Deputy Prime Minister: That too is a matter of resources, as my hon. Friend well knows. I have got a good deal from my right hon. Friend the Chancellor, given the resources that have been available. We are on the way to achieving the lower end of the Barker recommendations, but as the report said, if we want to achieve the recommended numbers by 2016, we will need to obtain increased resources from different sources. Kate Barker suggested one or two methods of funding which I favour, but my right hon. Friend the Chancellor has not yet made his mind up. We will continue to have discussions through the usual channels to see whether we can achieve what Barker said was necessary in social housing. The problem is the resources.

Angela Watkinson (Upminster) (Con): The Deputy Prime Minister has announced additional investment in the fire service. He will recall the pay dispute in 2002 that was resolved by the promise of an additional 16 per cent. to be paid in three stages. The first stage, 4 per cent. in November 2002, was paid. The second stage, an additional 7 per cent. in November 2003, was not paid because of a dispute over working practices. The third and final stage is due now, in July 2004. Can he confirm that it has been paid or, if it has not, will he tell us what he will do to avoid another pay dispute that neither firefighters nor the taxpayer can afford?

The Deputy Prime Minister: The hon. Lady will know from the many debates that we held on the unfortunate dispute in the fire service that we came to an agreement, accepted by the Fire Brigades Union, that the increase in wages would be financed by changes and modernisation. That is a matter for local authorities and fire authorities but unfortunately it is still in dispute, although talks are continuing. There are threats of a fire dispute. I hope that that does not come about and that the talks, in which I think the TUC is involved, are successful. We are clear, however, that payment of the money will depend on modernisation.

Dr. Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): I congratulate my right hon. Friend on the introduction of the idea of three-year funding for revenue and capital settlements for local authorities. I warmly welcome that move. Will he introduce in his Department, and prevail on other Departments to introduce, a no-surprises regime to ensure that orders or legislation with an
 
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impact on the revenue and expenditure of local authorities during the three-year periods are synchronised with the three-year funding cycles?

The Deputy Prime Minister: My hon. Friend has considerable experience in local government and we listen carefully to what he says. I am grateful for his endorsement of the three-year rule that local authorities have been asking for. He raises an important point about orders and new burdens for local authorities during the three-year periods. As he knows, there is an understanding that new burdens will not be put on local authorities once the standards have been set and I make that point vigorously to my colleagues. Nevertheless, I shall bring my hon. Friend's point to the attention of the Chancellor and others, and we shall redouble our efforts to try not to impose unnecessary extra burdens, through orders of the House, on local authorities after deciding on a financial agreement.

Mr. Damian Green (Ashford) (Con): I am sure that the Deputy Prime Minister is sincere when he says that he wants to build sustainable communities, but will he consider one of his four high-growth areas—my constituency of Ashford? Despite his efforts and the very good efforts of Ashford borough council and Kent county council, although we are building 1,000 houses a year we are creating only 300 jobs a year, and thus creating a commuter dormitory town. What is there in his statement to help Ashford remain a sustainable community so that it does not become merely a dormitory town, which would be against the wishes of the vast majority of people in Ashford?

The Deputy Prime Minister: When I visited Ashford some time ago, the local authority made the useful point that we need to make sure that transport connections are included, as well as increased housing. We all agree that road connections are important and negotiations with the highway authority are in their final stages. Transport infrastructure is one of the aspects of the new funding and we are talking about it. Unless we achieve it, we cannot expect those new areas to be opened to housing.

The hon. Gentleman is also concerned about developing new jobs. We have been talking to local authorities and they feel that, once they are more connected to the system, that will help in developing jobs, which are a necessary aspect of sustainability, along with infrastructure investment, housing and education. Without them, we cannot achieve the sustainable communities that we are committed to providing.

Mr. Harry Barnes (North-East Derbyshire) (Lab): Does my right hon. Friend remember Clay Cross and the Housing Finance Act 1972? Clay Cross is in my constituency and people are getting increasingly agitated about the absence of the option 4 that my right hon. Friend has unfortunately dismissed. As 70,000 new social rented houses will be built over three years, is there not scope—where it is wanted—for an element of council house provision and council house refurbishment under council control? That is what people in some areas want.

The Deputy Prime Minister: I tried to set out to the House the balance between private and public money in
 
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achieving a faster rate of property improvement. My hon. Friend asked whether part of the new housing could be council-owned. That is the case under arm's length management organisations: housing is council-owned and there is representation on the board. Council tenants own the properties.

I do not know what has happened in Clay Cross. My hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) has left the Chamber, thank goodness, so I do not have to face him, because I well remember the battle over Clay Cross with the then Member for Grimsby. Where there has to be a fourth option, give people the choice—choice is in, I hear. Let them choose the scheme they want—

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