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Hugh Robertson (Faversham and Mid-Kent) (Con): The Secretary of State will be aware of the real concern felt in my constituency and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Ashford (Mr. Green) about the SRA's proposed cuts to the Maidstone to Ashford line. As a result of the right hon. Gentleman's statement today, will he confirm whether the Government's consultation with the Integrated Kent Franchise will still report as planned in the autumn?

Mr. Darling: I am well aware of the concerns in Kent about the current consultation. It is very clear that, whatever is proposed, if there is a difficulty in one part of the country or another, that is something for the SRA to resolve. I appreciate that it will be very difficult to resolve all the various conflicts, but, obviously, we must have a go. For the avoidance of doubt, the SRA will continue to be responsible for those matters until it is closed, probably in the second half of next year.

Mr. Graham Stringer (Manchester, Blackley) (Lab): I congratulate my right hon. Friend on an excellent response to the analysis in the Select Committee report, "The Future of the Railway". I particularly appreciate the devolution of both power and cash to passenger transport authorities, so that they can determine what goes on in their areas. A huge quantity of money is spent on heavy rail over which local people have no control or say, but will he assure me that waiting for the legislation to enable that transfer will not delay implementing the extension of the tram system in Greater Manchester?

Mr. Darling: I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that issue. He has long held the view that there ought to be greater openness, so that PTEs can take informed decisions about whether to provide heavy rail, light rail or bus services. There are a number of light rail schemes, but they are not dealt with specifically in the White Paper, which is about the proposed structure. I have always made the point that, in relation to any rail scheme—heavy or light—or indeed any other transport scheme, we must be satisfied that it stacks up and provides value for money.

One of our problems with light rail schemes, as my hon. Friend well knows, is that the costs have doubled in the past two or three years and what is proposed is half as much as originally planned. The Government cannot sign up to things that do not represent value for money. Some of the changes that I have announced today, whereby we are increasingly able to identify regional transport budgets, will ensure that PTEs and local authorities will also be able to make more
 
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informed judgments about where they are prepared to spend their money. That is obviously of interest to the Government.

Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con): I welcome the reduction in franchise numbers. I also warmly welcome the closer working relationship between operators and those who control the track. However, may I pick up the point, which was made strongly by my right hon. Friend the Member for North-West Hampshire (Sir George Young), that the Secretary of State and the Government should consider the length of franchises? Unless the franchises are of a certain length, those companies will not be able to make the necessary investment in car parking facilities at stations. The need for safe, reliable parking at Macclesfield station is critical to getting people off the roads and into trains for journeys to Manchester or south to Birmingham and Stoke. Such investment is very important to my constituency.

Mr. Darling: The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. Many train operating companies have not just put money into their trains and on-train services, but built car parks, and some run minibus and bus services to round up customers and take them to the stations every morning. That is the sort of thing that we want to encourage. I want to ensure that franchises are sufficiently long to encourage companies to stick in there and make that investment.

Past performance ought to be taken into account because we are entitled to ask, "Okay, what did you do for the first part of the franchise? What might you do in the second part?" Obviously, cost and performance are critically important. As I told the right hon. Member for North-West Hampshire (Sir George Young), my reservation is that, if the franchise is too long, the numbers bid sometimes become unrealistic, but I am very grateful to the hon. Member for Macclesfield (Sir Nicholas Winterton) and other hon. Members for the general welcome that they have given to our proposals. Indeed, the only sour note so far appears to have come from the hon. Member for South Suffolk (Mr. Yeo).

Mr. Iain Luke (Dundee, East) (Lab): I welcome transferring the SRA's responsibilities to the Secretary of State, but I am concerned, as the representative of a north-eastern Scottish constituency, that the funding given to the Scottish Executive to upgrade the line north of Edinburgh is sufficient. Colleagues and I have recently had discussions with the SRA, which has decoupled the prioritisation of investment north of Edinburgh, and we have had discussions with the Minister for Transport in the Scottish Executive, and they have told us that they have no money. I hope that any devolution of responsibility will involve sufficient money to ensure that the much-needed investment in north-east Scotland's railway lines can go ahead soon.

Mr. Darling: I am aware of the problems that my hon. Friend sets out in relation to the lines in the north-east of Scotland. Upgrading the line between the central belt and Aberdeen was an issue when I lived in Aberdeen in the 1970s—it is not new. In relation to what I propose in respect of Scotland, it is right, especially as most services in Scotland are discrete to Scotland, that the Scottish
 
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Executive ought to have a greater say, and they can decide to spend more or less. That is a decision that they should properly take.

In relation to rail finances generally, however, the House should understand that the cost of running the railway, especially now that we are clear about the state of the network, has risen very dramatically in the past five years or so. Although there will be improvements—a lot of money is going into the railways—obviously, choices must be made about what can be done and when, so people must be realistic about that.

Pete Wishart (North Tayside) (SNP): I, too, welcome the statement, especially the part that relates to Scotland. We in the Scottish National party and our colleagues have argued long and hard that there has been an overwhelming case for the transfer of rail powers to the Scottish Parliament and, indeed, to the Welsh Assembly. I am glad that the Secretary of State now sees the clarity of that case. Will he say a little more about how the resources will follow the transfer of powers? I am still unclear about how Scottish objectives will be pursued by the Scottish Executive. In his guise as the Secretary of State for Scotland, does he agree that, when it makes overwhelming sense to devolve such powers, as it does on the railways, he will continue to consider such cases in the future?

Mr. Darling: I am proposing a substantial change in the arrangements for the railways. Of course, the Scottish Executive got a very good settlement, consequential on the announcements that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor made on Monday. It is obviously for the Scottish Executive to decide how to deploy those resources, and it is encouraging that they are now spending more than £1 billion on transport for the first time ever, I think. That is good news. The hon. Gentleman might want to reflect on the fact that the reason why Scotland's expenditure is going up is that the Chancellor was able to make those resources available because of the strength of the UK economy. Of course, that would all be at risk with separation.

Liz Blackman (Erewash) (Lab): My right hon. Friend will know that I have raised the absence of a station at Ilkeston with him before. Indeed, it is the only town of its size in the east midlands that does not have a station. The Government are currently funding a link road to join the town with the motorway, so a station would make an ideal transport hub. In the light of his statement, what comfort can he give to my constituents that a station will arrive sooner rather than later?

Mr. Darling: Tempted though I am, I would probably be better not to make any specific promises. The White Paper deals with the structure and organisation necessary to run the railways rather than specifics. We will need to consider whether a station can be established in Ilkeston. We are spending a lot of money on the railways, but people must understand that the cost of running the railway and the regulatory review
 
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that took place at the end of last year have put a substantial pressure on our budget as a whole. Yes, we want improvements to transport across the piece, but we need to ensure that we bear down on costs because every time that we do that, additional money might be available to do other things. I shall bear my hon. Friend's point in mind, but the White Paper does not deal with matters in such specific deal.

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