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Mr. Redwood: That is grossly unfair. The Minister is saying that these companies may have to pay a charge under a regulation that has not been made. How are they expected to know the form and detail of the regulation from the vague statements of the Minister? They must not be imposed upon in this way until they know in detail what the regulatory framework will be.

Mr. McNulty: They will know the regulatory framework. They may not know the detail of the regulations, but I have assured my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes, North-East that the gap between any commencement order for this part of the Bill and subsequent regulations will be as short as possible. That is a practicality and no more; to characterise it as bashing utilities, attacking people and seeking to impede good business is, I repeat, an abject nonsense, given that the very first thing we will do is to sit down with the utilities and the businesses most directly affected to discuss what regulations should prevail. We do not accept amendment (a) but I commend all the other amendments to the House.

Lords amendment agreed to.

Lords amendments Nos. 38 to 51 agreed to.

Lords amendment: No. 52, in page 30, line 4, after "has," insert

"after the commencement of this section (whether or not regulations under it have been made) and".

Amendment proposed to the Lords amendment: (a), in line 2, leave out

'(whether or not regulations under it have been made)'.—[Mr. Chope.]

 
15 Jul 2004 : Column 1624
 

The House divided: Ayes 61, Noes 186.

Division No. 227 [5:32 pm


AYES

Amess, David
Ancram, rh Michael
Arbuthnot, rh James
Atkinson, David (Bour'mth E)
Bacon, Richard
Bottomley, Peter (Worthing W)
Brady, Graham
Brake, Tom (Carshalton)
Cameron, David
Chapman, Sir Sydney (Chipping Barnet)
Chope, Christopher
Clarke, rh Kenneth (Rushcliffe)
Cormack, Sir Patrick
Cran, James (Beverley)
Curry, rh David
Dodds, Nigel
Evans, Nigel
Fallon, Michael
Field, Mark (Cities of London & Westminster)
Gibb, Nick (Bognor Regis)
Goodman, Paul
Green, Damian (Ashford)
Hague, rh William
Heald, Oliver
Hogg, rh Douglas
Horam, John (Orpington)
Jack, rh Michael
Jackson, Robert (Wantage)
Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham)
Key, Robert (Salisbury)
Knight, rh Greg (E Yorkshire)
Lait, Mrs Jacqui
Lansley, Andrew
Lilley, rh Peter
Luff, Peter (M-Worcs)
May, Mrs Theresa
O'Brien, Stephen (Eddisbury)
Paterson, Owen
Portillo, rh Michael
Price, Adam (E Carmarthen & Dinefwr)
Redwood, rh John
Roe, Dame Marion
Rosindell, Andrew
Ruffley, David
Russell, Bob (Colchester)
Spicer, Sir Michael
Spring, Richard
Stanley, rh Sir John
Streeter, Gary
Taylor, Ian (Esher)
Taylor, Matthew (Truro)
Taylor, Sir Teddy
Thurso, John
Tyrie, Andrew
Viggers, Peter
Walter, Robert
Watkinson, Angela
Wilkinson, John
Willetts, David
Winterton, Ann (Congleton)
Winterton, Sir Nicholas (Macclesfield)

Tellers for the Ayes:

Mr. Eric Forth and
Mr. Peter Atkinson


NOES

Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, Bob (Cov'try NE)
Allen, Graham
Anderson, rh Donald (Swansea E)
Atkins, Charlotte
Austin, John
Bayley, Hugh
Beard, Nigel
Beckett, rh Margaret
Bell, Sir Stuart
Bennett, Andrew
Benton, Joe (Bootle)
Berry, Roger
Best, Harold
Blackman, Liz
Blears, Ms Hazel
Blizzard, Bob
Brown, rh Nicholas (Newcastle E Wallsend)
Brown, Russell (Dumfries)
Browne, Desmond
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burnham, Andy
Byers, rh Stephen
Cairns, David
Campbell, Alan (Tynemouth)
Caplin, Ivor
Caton, Martin
Challen, Colin
Chapman, Ben (Wirral S)
Chaytor, David
Clapham, Michael
Clark, Mrs Helen (Peterborough)
Clark, Dr. Lynda (Edinburgh Pentlands)
Clark, Paul (Gillingham)
Clarke, rh Tom (Coatbridge & Chryston)
Clarke, Tony (Northampton S)
Clwyd, Ann (Cynon V)
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ms Ann
Cohen, Harry
Colman, Tony
Corston, Jean
Cox, Tom (Tooting)
Crausby, David
Cryer, Ann (Keighley)
Cunningham, Jim (Coventry S)
Davey, Valerie (Bristol W)
Davidson, Ian
Davies, Geraint (Croydon C)
Dawson, Hilton
Dean, Mrs Janet
Denham, rh John
Dismore, Andrew
Dobbin, Jim (Heywood)
Dobson, rh Frank
Doran, Frank
Dowd, Jim (Lewisham W)
Drown, Ms Julia
Etherington, Bill
Farrelly, Paul
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flynn, Paul (Newport W)
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings & Rye)
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gapes, Mike (Ilford S)
Gardiner, Barry
Gerrard, Neil
Gibson, Dr. Ian
Gilroy, Linda
Griffiths, Jane (Reading E)
Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S)
Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)
Hall, Mike (Weaver Vale)
Hamilton, David (Midlothian)
Harris, Tom (Glasgow Cathcart)
Havard, Dai (Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney)
Healey, John
Hepburn, Stephen
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, George (Knowsley N & Sefton E)
Howells, Dr. Kim
Humble, Mrs Joan
Hurst, Alan (Braintree)
Hutton, rh John
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Illsley, Eric
Jackson, Glenda (Hampstead & Highgate)
Jackson, Helen (Hillsborough)
Jamieson, David
Johnson, Alan (Hull W)
Johnson, Miss Melanie (Welwyn Hatfield)
Jones, Kevan (N Durham)
Jones, Lynne (Selly Oak)
Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S)
Keen, Alan (Feltham)
Keen, Ann (Brentford)
Kelly, Ruth (Bolton W)
Khabra, Piara S.
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Lammy, David
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Leslie, Christopher
Linton, Martin
Luke, Iain (Dundee E)
Lyons, John (Strathkelvin)
McAvoy, Thomas
McCafferty, Chris
MacDonald, Calum
MacDougall, John
McFall, rh John
McGuire, Mrs Anne
McIsaac, Shona
McNulty, Tony
Mactaggart, Fiona
McWalter, Tony
McWilliam, John
Mahon, Mrs Alice
Mandelson, rh Peter
Marsden, Gordon (Blackpool S)
Michael, rh Alun
Miliband, David
Moffatt, Laura
Mole, Chris
Morgan, Julie
Morley, Elliot
Mountford, Kali
O'Brien, Bill (Normanton)
O'Brien, Mike (N Warks)
Olner, Bill
O'Neill, Martin
Owen, Albert
Perham, Linda
Picking, Anne
Pike, Peter (Burnley)
Plaskitt, James
Pollard, Kerry
Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)
Prescott, rh John
Purnell, James
Quinn, Lawrie
Rammell, Bill
Rapson, Syd (Portsmouth N)
Robertson, John (Glasgow Anniesland)
Roy, Frank (Motherwell)
Ruddock, Joan
Russell, Ms Christine (City of Chester)
Salter, Martin
Sarwar, Mohammad
Sheerman, Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Skinner, Dennis
Smith, rh Andrew (Oxford E)
Smith, rh Chris (Islington S & Finsbury)
Smith, Geraldine (Morecambe & Lunesdale)
Smith, Jacqui (Redditch)
Smith, John (Glamorgan)
Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent)
Soley, Clive
Southworth, Helen
Squire, Rachel
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Stewart, David (Inverness E & Lochaber)
Stewart, Ian (Eccles)
Stinchcombe, Paul
Stoate, Dr. Howard
Strang, rh Dr. Gavin
Sutcliffe, Gerry
Taylor, rh Ann (Dewsbury)
Timms, Stephen
Todd, Mark (S Derbyshire)
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Dr. Desmond (Brighton Kemptown)
Twigg, Derek (Halton)
Twigg, Stephen (Enfield)
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Ward, Claire
Wareing, Robert N.
Watts, David
White, Brian
Winnick, David
Wood, Mike (Batley)
Woodward, Shaun
Wright, Anthony D. (Gt Yarmouth)
Wright, Tony (Cannock)

Tellers for the Noes:

Joan Ryan and
Gillian Merron


Question accordingly negatived.

 
15 Jul 2004 : Column 1625
 

Lords amendment No. 52 agreed to.

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