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Mrs. Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): I strongly support the orders, because they will enact the will of the House. The people of the northern regions should have the opportunity to decide for themselves whether they want directly elected regional assemblies.

The choice will be between the new assemblies and maintaining the current system and all its inequalities. A child born today in the north-west is likely to live 10 years less than one born in the south-east. Overwhelmingly, the country's deprived wards and local authorities are concentrated in the north-west, and funding for scientific research continues to be concentrated in four higher education institutions—the Oxbridge colleges, and two colleges in London.

Mr. Jenkin: We often hear about the life expectancy disparity between north and south. It is possible to find wide disparities in life expectancy between people born in leafy Surrey, say, and the worst ward in Newcastle, but the greatest disparities exist between the good and
 
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bad areas of individual regions. The average disparity in life expectancy between regions is actually quite small, so can we have truth in this matter? I have checked the figures, and I challenge the hon. Lady to produce region-wide figures that bear out her assertion, because it is not true.

Mrs. Ellman: I hope that the hon. Gentleman is not suggesting that I am being untruthful. If he is, I ask him to withdraw the suggestion. The figure that I quoted is correct, and is borne out by numerous statistics put forward by other people. It is clear that there is a concentration of deprivation in the north-west—in terms of wards, special areas, local authorities and life expectancy, and in many other ways.

Mr. Kevan Jones: Does my hon. Friend agree that the disparity in constituencies such as hers and mine was made worse by the last Tory Government?

Mrs. Ellman: I certainly do agree and we are attempting to change the situation in which deprivation and inequality continue. Those people who oppose the proposals—the orders that will give effect to the choice that we want to offer the people of the north, to decide whether they want to change the system—want to maintain the status quo, with all its inequalities.

Mr. George Osborne: The hon. Lady mentioned science moving from the north-west to Oxbridge and she will know that the Government took the decision to move the synchrotron from Daresbury to Oxfordshire. That was a damaging decision for the north-west, but does she really think that a regional assembly would have been able to stop a decision taken by the Minister for Science and Innovation in Whitehall to move the facility? Even if the referendum were to be won, such decisions would continue to be made by the Minister and the Cabinet.

Mrs. Ellman: The decision to which the hon. Gentleman refers was one instance, although it was a serious instance that outraged the north-west and started to bring the region together. One of the consequences was the formation of the North West Science Council, with people from the academic and scientific sector working together with Members of Parliament and local authority representatives. We realised that unless we worked together, the system—of which that decision was only one example—would continue. It would have been inconceivable for that decision to have been taken for the areas represented by the Welsh Assembly or the Scottish Parliament. It is essential to have an organisation to represent the region as a whole, to deal with those issues that are regional—not local—and to give clout to the north-west and the other northern regions, and to argue for change and a better allocation of resources.

The hon. Gentleman refers to a decision taken by a Minister, but it was taken after concentrated lobbying and threats from the Wellcome Trust as to what it would do if the decision were not taken in its favour. The real decision was taken by that magic inner circle—the people who know one another and who are convinced that the only centres of excellence are to be found in London and the south-east. That is one of the very
 
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strong reasons why it is so important that we have an elected regional body to speak out for the needs of the region and to work with people in our centres of excellence. By mentioning that example, the hon. Gentleman has drawn attention to one of the strongest reasons for going forward with an elected regional assembly.

Reference has been made in the debate to the postal vote. From experience, it gives people the maximum opportunity to vote. Indeed, in the recent elections in my area, turnout was almost doubled in some areas by the postal vote. My right hon. Friend the Minister mentioned the caveats about the postal vote in terms of any comments that the Electoral Commission might make. The hon. Member for North Essex said that he believed that people in the regions did not know about the opportunity that they will have to vote for a directly elected Assembly. If that is the case, that is all the more reason to pass the orders. The yes and no campaigns can be officially organised, with sufficient resources to argue their cases.

I find that people in the north-west are most interested and concerned about how the region has been treated in terms of transport, jobs, planning, housing and public health. Those are all areas in which the elected regional assembly will have specific responsibilities and powers. Reference was made earlier in the debate to housing. The housing powers that would go to the elected regional assembly under the White Paper are currently exercised by quangos at a regional level, which report to a Minister. They are not powers for local authorities; they relate to the allocation of housing investment within and between local authorities and housing associations. An elected body should decide such extremely important matters. I suspect that few people in the regions know that such decision making is taking place, let alone the names of the individuals and organisations taking those decisions. It is thus essential that the powers promised in the White Paper go to the elected body.

Jobs and skills are extremely important. Under the White Paper, regional development agencies would be accountable to the region and not solely to Ministers, as is currently the case—although of course Ministers discuss various issues with the regional chambers.

The north-west has had a bad deal on transport. The rate of progress on the west coast main line leaves much to be desired. If we had an elected assembly, much more would have happened in that regard. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport has made several statements recently about devolving transport matters locally to passenger transport authorities and to regional bodies, but unless such bodies are directly elected, those powers would be devolved to quangos—to unknown people who are not accountable in the region.

Proposals have been made about setting up transport boards, especially in regions where there are directly elected assemblies. That, too, will give power to people in the regions and to people who are elected and thus accountable.

Mr. George Osborne: From my dealings with the hon. Lady, I have no doubt about her sincerity and I know why she speaks with such strength on these issues. I ask
 
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her to consider the M6 toll road—probably one of the most important issues facing the north-west, which we both represent. Does she really think that decisions such as whether to proceed with the M6 toll road will have anything to do with a north-west regional assembly? That decision will be taken by the Secretary of State for Transport, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and, possibly, the Cabinet. Those vital decisions for the north-west will continue to be taken in London.

Mrs. Ellman: Some decisions will be taken locally, some regionally and some nationally, but a directly elected body would have the clout and legitimacy to ensure that decisions such as the one the hon. Gentleman mentioned would be dealt with much more seriously and quickly. Without such a body, things would lapse and decisions would increasingly suit the south and the south-east where strength already lies, with no need for direct elections—although it will not have escaped the hon. Gentleman's notice that the existence of the Mayor and the London assembly have brought increased strength to London and its power to attract more and more resources. Unless there is an equivalent body in the north-west, we shall find that power and resources are increasingly sucked to London and the south-east. The north-west and the other northern regions will continue to be left behind.

Mr. Edward Davey: The hon. Lady is right. Furthermore, if the powers of the Highways Agency were devolved to the north-west regional assembly, the assembly would have powers over trunk roads, such as those devolved to the Greater London authority. That would be especially welcomed by county councils in the north-west, as they are annoyed when investment decisions on trunk roads are made in London and by the Highways Agency, rather than by the people of the north-west. Devolution of powers for trunk roads would be a substantial improvement on the current situation.

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