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Joyce Quin (Gateshead, East and Washington, West) (Lab): While I hope that devolution will come to the north-west and Yorkshire and the Humber in due course, I believe that the north-east, with its distinct history and culture, and its determination to help to build its own future, will be able to lead the way and to be the pioneer for this new form of government in England. Will my right hon. Friend ensure that the case for the north-east is made across government with purpose and enthusiasm?
 
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Mr. Raynsford: I echo my right hon. Friend's remarks about the commitment of people in the north-east. I assure her that all those of us who believe, as many of us do passionately, in the case for regional devolution will be doing our utmost to ensure that people in the north-east have full information about the options. I am confident that they will vote yes for regional devolution, which has been a long-term aspiration of the region, and that in doing so they will point the way forward for other parts of the country.

Mr. Peter Atkinson (Hexham) (Con): The Minister claimed that there was overwhelming support for a referendum in the north-east. He should pay some regard to opinion polls published in the region showing that the majority of people did not even know that the referendum was to be held.

If the Electoral Commission reported on 27 August that the whole postal ballot system is flawed, would the Minister postpone the referendum in the north-east?

Mr. Raynsford: I understand that the hon. Gentleman will feel like a threatened minority in the north-east, as he is the only Conservative MP in the region. That is an indication of the lack of support that his party, which is opposed to regional devolution, has there. I will say no more about his first point.

As for what would happen if the Electoral Commission reported at the end of the August that it was unsafe to proceed, we have already said that in that case we would not proceed with an all-postal referendum. However, there is absolutely no evidence of any serious concern in the north-east, which has had more experience of all-postal voting than any other region. A series of pilots have taken place in local authorities, and there were by-elections in 2000, 2002 and 2003. Last night, we heard about a local government by-election that had a 64 per cent. turnout. That all points to the confidence of the north-east region in all-postal voting. On that basis, we think that it is right to proceed, but of course we will look at the Electoral Commission's report when it comes out.

Mr. George Howarth (Knowsley, North and Sefton, East) (Lab): I congratulate my right hon. Friend, and my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister, on having the common sense to listen to the voices of Members of Parliament in the north-west and of the public in that region, who, by their eloquent silence, have indicated that they do not recognise that there is any such place as the north-west in terms of politics, economics or culture. I thank my right hon. Friend for giving those of us who believe that city regions are the way forward for devolution the space to develop our arguments, and assure him that that campaign starts now.

Mr. Raynsford: It may disappoint my hon. Friend to learn that we are postponing, not cancelling, a referendum in the north-west. [Hon. Members: "Hear, hear."] The argument for regional devolution in the north-west will be engaged at a slightly later date than was previously arranged. However, I understand his concerns. As he has not been an advocate of this policy, I am sure that he is pleased about our announcement to postpone.
 
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Mr. Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale, West) (Con): I welcome this climbdown from a costly, irrelevant and unwanted proposal for an extra tier of government in the north-west. However, I remain concerned that throughout the process the Government have assumed people's support despite having no evidence for it. If they intend to continue considering the possibility of holding referendums on regional government, can that decision be transferred to an independent body that can make rational decisions without party politics getting in the way and assess the very low level of interest in regional government? That would finally put paid to the whole idea.

Mr. Raynsford: The hon. Gentleman appears not to know that a detailed process, involving soundings, was undergone in all the English regions and it demonstrated greater interest in the northern regions than in others. In comparison with the response to normal consultation exercises, the number of respondents from all three northern regions was significant. However, we have always taken the view that, ultimately, it is up to the people to decide in a referendum. That is why we have provided for referendums. The people will decide on 4 November in the north-east and later in the north-west and Yorkshire and Humber and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will respect their view when they make their decision in those referendums. That is the ultimate test.

Mrs. Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): I am deeply disappointed by my right hon. Friend's statement but will he give the House a guarantee that the people of the north-west will have the opportunity to vote in a referendum for a regional assembly? They will thus have the same opportunities as are being given to people in the north-east, about which I am pleased. Does he agree that the problems of the north-south divide and the unaccountability of regional quangos will continue unless resolute action is taken? When he says that he will listen to people's voices on the matter, will he guarantee listening to those who positively seek change to give a better deal to people who live in the north-west and not solely to negative voices inside and outside Parliament and those who simply want to maintain the status quo, with all its inequalities?

Mr. Raynsford: Of course, I was here last night when my hon. Friend spoke eloquently about the problems of the north-south divide and argued passionately for people in the north-west to have the opportunity to vote for regional devolution. I give her the assurance that she seeks. People in the north-west will have that option. It will not be exercised on 4 November, for the reasons that I have given, but we will report back to the House in September and make the timetable clear then. I assure my hon. Friend that we will listen to the views of all parties. Obviously, we shall listen to the views of those who seek change, as she does.

Mr. John Greenway (Ryedale) (Con): Has the Minister no comprehension of the damage that uncertainty about the matter does to local government in North Yorkshire? Even if we had a referendum on 4 November, civil servants have already left their posts for better pastures because the plans mean that they cannot envisage a future for their local council. If we are
 
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considering only a postponement, not a cancellation, the uncertainty will continue. The Minister owes us an explanation of when he believes that the ballot will take place. If he is genuinely in favour of it, why cannot we have polling stations?

Mr. Raynsford: The hon. Gentleman makes a perfectly fair point about uncertainty in local government because of reorganisation. I am conscious of that and I want to ensure that we make a statement in the House in September to clarify the position so that the uncertainty does not continue any longer than absolutely necessary. I accept it has an effect on people who work in local authorities.

By contrast with the atmosphere in the 1990s when the Banham process engendered considerable delay, concern and apprehension in local government, the current process has generally been much more positive, although I appreciate that some people are apprehensive about the different options in Yorkshire and Humber. However, I take the hon. Gentleman's point.

Mr. Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): My right hon. Friend knows that Durham and other parts of the north-east have had all-postal ballots for the past three years. That has led to dramatic increases in turnout. The Electoral Commission's analysis of the pilots not only congratulated the relevant councils but pointed out that there was no increase in fraud.

I welcome today's announcement of a referendum on 4 November in the north-east. I look forward to people in the north-east having a say in their future on that day. The Conservative party never gave people such a say when it abolished, for example, Tyne and Wear county council.

Mr. Raynsford: My hon. Friend is right to highlight the considerable and positive experience of the north-east. Twenty-two all-postal voting pilots took place in the north-east before 2004—significantly more than in any other region even though it is the smallest region in the country. That shows the extent to which the north-east has gone further in piloting and testing all-postal voting. As he said, that arrangement has had a positive impact in increased turnout. Few, if any, recorded instances of fraud occurred in the north-east. All that points to the logic of proceeding in the north-east with an all-postal ballot on 4 November. I am grateful for my hon. Friend's welcome of that and I have no doubt that he will be a powerful advocate for devolution in the region between now and the referendum.

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