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Mr. Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh, North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op):
What is my hon. Friend's assessment of
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the extent of the control that Switzerland and Norway enjoy over their domestic economy compared with EU countries?
Mr. Hopkins: I am glad that, like us, Norway, is not a member of the eurozone. It has close relations with EU countries, adopts European rules and, like us, is closely involved in the European Union. It is not, however, a member of the eurozone—that is the core of the issue—and can choose its economic policy. We are all part of the world economy and are all buffeted by global economic forces, but we can at least choose our own interest rates, exchange rate and fiscal policy, and we can decide to reflate or deflate. That is not possible for members of a union in which policies are decided by unelected central banks. That is of fundamental significance. Norway, like us, is free of that control at the moment. [Interruption.] My hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) asks about Britain, which has handed power over interest rates to our central bank to control inflation. However, if the Bank of England started to deflate heavily before an election the Chancellor would have a few words to say about that, and we can always take back that power if we choose. [Interruption.] I would be happy to do so, but I have no criticisms of the Bank of England at this stage, as it is doing an excellent job on interest rate policy. Indeed, I am pleased that its previous Governor has similar views to mine about the eurozone and our membership, or not, of it.
There are serious worries across the European Union, particularly in labour movements, about its direction and the way in which we govern our economies. The best example is the Swedish vote on the euro last year, when the left, including the trade unions and the social democrats, was worried about the threat to the welfare state and voted against membership of the eurozone. We, too, should continue to oppose membership.
Finally, the treaty makes inappropriate reference to the institutions of the eurozone, which is a major reason why I do not support it. There should be a separate document on the eurozone that has nothing to do with the treaty, if we vote in favour of the treaty at all. Only a minority of member states belong to the eurozone. We do not belong to it and neither do most other members, so why should we support a treaty that governs its essential components? That is wholly inappropriate, as the hon. Member for Rochford and Southend, East (Sir Teddy Taylor) said. He was going to make a strong point about keeping the economic components of the treaty separate. As and when we vote on the treaty, we should vote on a document that does not cover the eurozone and does not deal with economic matters.
4.53 pm
Mr. Richard Shepherd (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con):
We often puzzle about constitutions and what they are. During our debate, the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) said that if we vote down the proposed constitution that would be an affirmation by the people that they were satisfied with Maastricht, Nice and everything that preceded them. That spin is almost worthy of the new European Commissioner, as the hon. Gentlemen knows in his heart of hearts. Four months ago, he voted against the holding of a referendum, on the insistence of the Whips, in an Opposition debate on
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the subject. Four weeks later, however, the Prime Minister decided on a lilo in Bermuda that the will of Parliament, as expressed by the Members of Parliament marching through the Lobby, was to hold one.
So when I listen to the attestations as to whom we represent and what we represent, I see a party turned on its head. The last vote by the party controlling the House of Commons was that there should be no referendum, but that changed, just like that.
I pose that point because at the heart of it lies the concept of representative government. It took us a long time to form a democratic institution. Is it not interesting that in the course of the Foreign Secretary's speech and in the speeches of all those who have spoken, with the exception of my right hon. Friend the Member for Wells (Mr. Heathcoat-Amory), that dangerous word "democracy" did not creep in? Over the 25 years I have been a Member of the House I have come to understand that that is the essential trust that forms the basis of the questions that intelligent people ask about how they are governed.
The document is undoubtedly grandiloquent. In its preamble establishing a constitution for Europe, it quotes Thucydides, no less, in both Greek and English. It states:
"Our constitution . . . is called a democracy because power is in the hands not of a minority but of the greatest number."
There is nothing in the document that evidences that—not a word. The institutional arrangements are devoted to ensuring that power is not in the hands of the greatest number. Of course, being a European document, or a Union document, what does it say—timbals, cymbals and bells—in part IV, "General and Final Provisions"? I know it is easy to mock such a construction. How could it be difficult, with 147 pages of management consultancy, as my hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset (Mr. Walter) called it? What are the important things that make the Union?
"The flag of the Union shall be a circle of twelve golden stars on a blue background.
The anthem of the Union shall be based on the Ode to Joy from the Ninth Symphony by Ludwig van Beethoven.
The motto of the Union shall be: United in diversity.
The currency of the Union shall be . . . "
The substance of the constitution is what we are concerned about and that is why the document is not suitable for the British people. Britain has come to understand that. We will reject it. It was Mr. Giscard d'Estaing, the former and disgraced President of the Republic of France who, in another grandiloquent gesture, tried to compare himself to those in Philadelphia who began the process of forming the United States of America. What is the language? What is the length? Sixteen pages in its original form, as opposed to more than 100 pages of management consultancy in the European document.
What is the core message? "We the People"—Jefferson's words, reissued in the mid-19th century with the greatest statement, perhaps, of democratic government. We the people govern ourselves. The Government are formed from ourselves and held accountable by ourselves. That is the essence of it, and a constitution tries to settle the matter. Ours does. In our
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own history in this long march to seize control over an Executive, it became evident, as Churchill himself said, that the people are sovereign. For 25 years a political class sees itself as an elite, but a Prime Minister can insist that the House votes one way one day and then, on a lilo in Bermuda, can change that.
We have brought it upon ourselves that we are so reduced. It is cheering, though, that Labour Members are beginning to understand that the purpose of Parliament is wider than the vanities of those who only temporarily govern us. As I have said before, we are here for only a brief season. Among the important elements of our own constitution, the one that I will not give up easily is the idea that we cannot bind our successors.
Again, Jefferson passionately believed that dead men should not rule for ever, yet how can one change a constitution of this nature?
Who can change such a constitution? Is it the British people? Is there a polity called Europe? No. To whom do I owe allegiance? Is it Europe or is it this House, this Chamber and this people, who sent me here and whom I represent. I am told, as if it were a banality, that there is nothing unreasonable about a foreign court, of which we know too little, having absolute control of our constitutional arrangements through this blue document, with its grandiloquence. This is what is so vital: the constitution is beyond the reach of the people, yet it is promoted as an ever-closer union of the people.
Mr. Shepherd: The hon. Gentleman says that, but the grandiloquent preamble refers to the consummation of closeness. The theme is ever-closer union, but a union of what and of whom? This nation believes in the comity of nations and openness. We have characterised those beliefs in the course of our history in an attempt to ensure that the people of this country determine the laws under which they shall live and know the people whom they shall remove if those laws are unsatisfactory.
These are the questions that I ask of the European constitution. Who governs us and makes the laws, and, importantly, how can we get rid of them? Where does this document state how I can get rid of them? How can I change them? Who appoints them and who chooses them? It is not the people who sent me here to represent them. This constitution could never have been brought forward by previous generations, who understood the sheer necessity and the difficulty of capturing power. Who is the sovereign? Let the document tell us, which it does—the answer is dire: it is not us. That is what the struggle and argument are about.
I am convinced that the British people will reject the constitution. The constitution is an accumulation of treaties on which the British people have never had an opportunity to express a view. This is the first time that the British people can say whether those arrangements for government are satisfactory, and I believe that they will say no.
Central to the Conservative position is the declaration by the party leader, who acknowledged the sovereignty of Parliament in a letter to my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon and East Chelmsford (Mr. Whittingdale):
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"the British Parliament is supreme and we would introduce the necessary legislation to bring about full national and local control."
That is central to what we are about.
The second section of the constitution should go. The European Court should not override anything that this House wants to do, because in the end we are responsible to the people, not to anyone beyond this polity. I shall argue and vote against this constitution.
5.03 pm
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