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Mr. Dawson: Does the hon. Lady not accept that it was her colleague, the right hon. Member for South-West Surrey (Virginia Bottomley), who abolished the concept of parental rights in 1989?
I understand that while we have been debating this important Bill, a man dressed as Batman has climbed on to Buckingham palace. [Interruption.] I agree that that seems to be a security breach. The man appears to represent a group called Fathers 4 Justice, but he is doing no service to the many separated fathers who are trying to do their best for their children. Unfortunately, his irresponsible behaviour tarnishes the reputation of the many organisations that are well meaning and responsible in their efforts to achieve equal parenting for children, where that is the right thing to do.
My hon. Friend the Member for Taunton (Mr. Flook) spoke with passion, as ever, about the lessons from his own constituency. The hon. Member for Gower (Mr. Caton) is absolutely right to demand a free vote on the defence of reasonable chastisement and the whole issue of smacking. I do not want tabloid coverage of the key aims of this vital Bill to be swept away by an over-concentration on the issue of smacking. But the very fact that we are discussing this issue tonight will itself help to open up the public debate and raise awareness of the problems arising from physical chastisement.
What our society and vulnerable children in particular need is not changes to the criminal law, fine words and more rules and regulations imposed from above. Rather, what is needed is a complete change in attitude, which can come about only through a consensus of public opinion and a change from within. So let us hope that the newspapers are right about this issue, but not in a jocular, silly or oppressive way. We need to say that physical chastisement is never the best way to exert discipline on a child. A small amount might sometimes be justified, but we have to draw the line at a very low threshold. The right way to do that is not by changing the criminal law.
My right hon. Friend the Member for South-West Surrey (Virginia Bottomley) made a very important contribution to the debate, and I pay tribute to the many achievements for which she was responsible when in government. I agree with what the hon. Member for Northampton, North (Ms Keeble) said about homelessness and the need for housing. I hope that we will be able to discuss these matters in greater detail in Committee, and I can assure the Minister that when we do, we will co-operate to the best of our ability. We commend the Bill and thoroughly support it, and we are glad to see it at last before this House.
9.49 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Dr. Stephen Ladyman):
We have heard, as I expected we would, about a number of cases in which
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children were let down, sometimes with terrible consequences. It is crucial that we learn the lessons of those cases. The Government and all their partners, including the voluntary, community and private sectors, have a responsibility to work together and with children and families to do so. We must ensure that we provide services for children and young people that are built around a proper understanding of their needs. It is particularly important for the most vulnerable that services focus on prevention and that there are clear lines of accountability.
The Bill will play a key role in achieving that. As my right hon. Friend the Minister for Children said, the legislative measures that we are debating today are only a small part of our wider programme of change for children, building on the vision set out in "Every Child Matters". They are vitally important none the less.
One of the things that we must all work on is more effective joint working between different disciplines at every level of the system, including central Government, which is why a Health Minister is winding up the debate. The Department of Health continues to have responsibility for children's health. That means that my right hon. Friend and I have to work very closely and set an example from the top.
At the centre of the programme for change are the outcomes set out in "Every Child Matters"—being healthy, staying safe, enjoying and achieving, making a positive contribution and economic well-being. The outcomes are derived from extensive consultation with children and young people themselves. Central to our agenda is ensuring that the outcomes, rather than process or the bureaucracy, become the focus of policy making, planning, commissioning and delivery of all children's services.
Good health in its fullest sense is essential to well-being. It is crucial that we ensure that health agencies and professionals work with their colleagues in education, social care, youth justice agencies and those in the private and voluntary sectors. There must be shared understanding and effective multi-disciplinary working at every level, and we must ensure that the legal framework and the messages sent out from central Government support that process. That means that the Department of Health and the Department for Education and Skills must be jointly responsible for ensuring that the children's trust approach works. That approach encourages health agencies and their local partners to find new and innovative ways to improve services for children, including preventive services.
The Government are continuing to drive the development of good practice in this area, with provision being built around the needs of children and their families. Measures in the Bill will enable and incentivise partnership and integration. In particular, the Bill requires local agencies, including health partners, to co-operate to improve well-being and remove barriers to the pooling of budgets and resources. It will also strengthen safeguarding arrangements and ensure that they are properly co-ordinated across local agencies.
Let me emphasise at this point that health services will not be allowed to stand remote from this agenda. For many children, general practitioners provide the entry point into children's service provision. They are a
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universal service with the potential to impact on the well-being of all children registered with them. GPs and other primary care professionals operate under contract to primary care trusts. PCTs are subject to the duties in the Bill to co-operate to improve the well-being of children and to have regard to the need to safeguard and promote their welfare.
Virginia Bottomley: Will the Minister give way?
Dr. Ladyman: I am afraid I will not. If I do not make progress, I will not be able to answer the right hon. Lady's points.
We are working with PCTs, GPs and the key national representative organisations to ensure that GPs are appropriately tied into these arrangements. However, what is perhaps more crucial is to ensure that GPs are supported in engaging in child-focused, multi-agency or co-located working arrangements and effective sharing of information, where appropriate.
My right hon. Friend and I have also been working closely together on the preparation of the national service framework for children, young people and maternity services, which will be published this week. I join my hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield (Mr. Hinchliffe) in congratulating Professor Aynsley-Green on his inclusive approach to producing the new national service framework. The NSF will establish national standards for children's health and social care for the first time in this country—and, to the best of my belief, for the first time in any country. During the 10-year span of the NSF, we will see a step-change in service quality for children. It will play an important role in driving cultural change within health services for children and young people at all levels. At its heart is a fundamental change in the way we think. It will promote a move towards services that are designed around the needs of children and their families, not organisations.
I turn to some of the comments made in the debate, and I shall start with those made by the hon. Members for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) and for Taunton (Mr. Flook) and, in a similar vein, by my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Wyre (Mr. Dawson). I very much enjoyed the speech by my hon. Friend, as I normally do, and I can tell him that he will be sadly missed when he leaves this place. All three mentioned the importance of social workers and the need to recruit them. I am happy to say that there are signs that the number of applications for social work training is increasing, but I spotted an important difference between my hon. Friend and the Opposition Members I mentioned. All three willed the ends, but only my hon. Friend joins the Government in willing the means. It is only by increasing the budgets for social services that we will increase the recruitment of social workers. The hon. Member for Epping Forest (Mrs. Laing) said that the Conservatives would preserve spending on Sure Start, but the shadow Chancellor has committed his party only to preserving spending on schools and health, not on social care or social services.
My hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Mr. Kidney) and the right hon. Member for South-West Surrey (Virginia Bottomley) mentioned the importance of parents. As someone who lost his father a fortnight ago, I know the benefits of having great
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parents. Sometimes we take them for granted, but it is only when everybody has great parents that we will start to achieve the changes that we are looking for. That means providing parents with the support that they need. The right hon. Lady asked specific questions about expert witnesses and the report that came out last week. My right hon. Friend the Minister for Children and I pre-empted that report by asking the chief medical officer to review the recruitment and training of expert witnesses. We hope that that review will lead to a way forward. The right hon. Lady also asked about the chief nursing officer's report, and I confirm that that was published on 10 August.
My hon. Friend the Member for Northampton, North (Ms Keeble) was alone in raising the important issue of housing and homelessness, and I have no doubt that my right hon. Friend has heard what she said. Several hon. Members, including those for Hertsmere (Mr. Clappison) and for East Worthing and Shoreham, and my hon. Friends the Members for Bridgend (Mr. Griffiths), for Wakefield (Mr. Hinchliffe) and for Gower (Mr. Caton), mentioned the Lords amendments to clause 2. We do not believe that the current wording would help the commissioner to discharge the strategic role that we intend and we will table amendments in Committee to reverse most of the changes introduced by the amendments made in the Lords. We believe that the commissioner's role should be a strategic one. He should have the opportunity to investigate issues widely and we do not want him to become bogged down in individual cases, as other commissioners sometimes have. My hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Wyre made the point that transport is a children's issue, and I agree. The commissioner that we intend to introduce would be able to write a strategic report about the impact of transport on children because he would not get bogged down in day-to-day issues. The hon. Member for Caernarfon (Hywel Williams) mentioned the fact that the Children's Commissioner for Wales has written two reports. I make no criticism of that commissioner, but had he not put most of his resources into individual cases and then taken the more strategic approach that we propose, he might have been able to produce more than two such reports.
The hon. Members for East Worthing and Shoreham, for Taunton and for Mid-Dorset and North Poole (Mrs. Brooke), and my hon. Friend the Member for Erewash (Liz Blackman), raised the issue of engaging schools. It will not be possible to deliver on our aim to provide coherent support for children unless we get schools playing a central role. We have many good examples of how extended schools are working well with local partners to do that already and many have been the inspiration for what we are doing. We intend to ensure that schools play a full part.
Unfortunately, time will not allow me to address all the points that were raised in the debate. However, let me just say that the Bill is one part of the major infrastructure that we are putting in place for children. It will dramatically improve the quality of care for children and I commend it to the House.
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