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Mr. Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): I thank the right hon. Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Miss Widdecombe) for giving me an opportunity to say a few words, and I congratulate her on her assiduous work on behalf of Gurkhas and Gurkha families who have served this country so well over the years.
I initially became interested in the Gurkha soldiers and regiments because a demonstration company that assists with training platoon commanders and senior non-commissioned officers is stationed at Derring Lines in my constituency. The finest NCOs in this country owe many of their skills to the assistance and work of that Gurkha company.
Earlier this year, I visited Brunei with the armed forces parliamentary scheme. The 2nd Royal Gurkha Rifles, which had just returned from Afghanistan, is currently stationed there. Other regiments are building on the work that they initiated in Afghanistan and the trust that they formed with the Afghan people. Britain and those other regiments have benefited from their work.
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The Gurkhas are highly esteemed for their qualities as soldiers, and their loyalty to the nation and the Crown is undisputed. However, they have problems with their terms and conditions of service. Accompanied married service, to which the right hon. Lady referred, is a genuine problem for them. In the three years that they are allowed to have their wives and families with them, especially when they are based at Brecon, they are well integrated into the community. The wives find jobs, the children go to school, and they play a huge part in the community's understanding of the diversity of culture in the rest of the world.
I have also become aware that when Gurkha soldiers finish their service after 15 years, as they have to do unless they become NCOs or officers, they have little alternative but to return to their country of origin, where their pension may be of some use to them, although it is very small compared with the pension that a British soldier gets. Some of those Gurkhas wish to stay in this country a little longer to build up some financial security for the time that they will spend in Nepal. They find it difficult because they are not given the same opportunities as other people from their country who have not served in the British Army, and I am pleased that the right hon. Lady has brought this matter to the attention of the House.
There has been concern in the Royal Gurkha Regiment that a number of its soldiers were leaving the service early to join commercial organisations providing security in Iraq and Afghanistan. They leave the British Army to do that so that they can build up the financial means to retire to Nepal. It is a great shame that they should have to leave the Army before they have to, in order to achieve that. If they were given the certainty that they could remain in Britain for a certain length of time, they would not need to take up such employment.
I do not believe that many Gurkhas would wish to remain in this country for ever, because they have a great affinity for their home country and want to return there to play a part in the reconstruction and improvement of the area. They are simply looking for an opportunity to stay here for a short while to build up some financial security before they go back to Nepal.
I support the work that the right hon. Lady is doing. It is important for the Gurkhas that they should have the confidence to serve this country, and I shall listen with interest to the Minister's reply.
7.47 pm
The Minister for Citizenship and Immigration (Mr. Desmond Browne):
I congratulate the right hon. Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Miss Widdecombe) on being doubly fortunate in having secured two Adjournment debates on this important subject over the past 18 months, and I welcome this debate. May I also thank the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Mr. Williams) for his contribution? I should like to remind him that he is but one of a number of Members on both sides of the House who have spoken out in support of the general thrust of the right hon. Lady's argument. He is fortunate to have been granted this opportunity to contribute to another Member's debate, and he represents a significant number of Members who have contacted either my Department or the Ministry of
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Defence on this issue. The support in the House for this issue reflects the level of support that the Daily Express has generated among its readership.
I am well aware of the high regard in which the Gurkhas are held in this country, and of the valued contribution that they make during their service with the British armed forces. As I was preparing for this debate, I read the right hon. Lady's previous Adjournment debate on the subject. She has repeated tonight some of the observations that she made about the distinguished history of the Gurkhas, and I am sure that the legend of honour of the Gurkhas could occupy the House for some time, if we were to debate their heroism and service to British society and its armed forces.
I am also acutely aware of the concern sometimes expressed about the terms and conditions of the Gurkhas' service, and I shall deal with the specific points that the right hon. Lady raised if there is time for me to do so. She reminded the House that a review is being carried out, and I am sure that she would not expect me to pre-empt that work by making an announcement tonight. However, this debate gives me the opportunity to put the issue in context and to respond to her questions.
Mr. Browne: If the right hon. Lady wishes to raise the issue of the time that the review has been going on for, I will deal with that specifically, and appropriately, in response to the debate. I will do it now if she wants me to do so.
Miss Widdecombe: When the Minister comes to respond on the time that has already elapsed, what I and, I am sure, other Members would be far more interested to hear, is how much time has yet to elapse before we get those results?
Mr. Browne: To the extent that any Minister is ever able to do that—the right hon. Lady knows that it is limited—I will endeavour to give an answer to that question.
At the outset—although I am now some way into my speech—I want to say that I am very grateful to the right hon. Lady for saying that this should not be reduced to a party political issue. The issue is far too important for that. I did not want to be brought by contributions to this debate to have to remind the House of the history of this matter—of course, Governments of a different hue from the current Government had opportunities to deal with this issue. Circumstances change, and as the right hon. Lady reminds us, we are in the 21st century, and it is time to look forward and not back. Some of those who comment on these issues outside the House ought to be reminded—and I would be grateful if she would repeat some of her comments outside—that this is not a party political issue, and that the situation persisted long before this Government came to power. While it needs to be resolved—I accept that, in the 21st century—that is not because of the actions of this Government.
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The Government recognise the enormous contribution that the Gurkhas have made, serving across the world for the UK's armed forces. I want to take this opportunity simply to thank them for their bravery and their loyalty. Ministers are sympathetic to concerns about their current situation, which, as the right hon. Lady reminded us, has applied for the past 50 years. I reassure the House that Ministers, including me, have focused on a solution that works for the next 50 years, because the relationship between the Nepalese and British people has been of mutual benefit, and we ought to find solutions to these persistent problems.
On the time that the review has taken, it has been conducted in line with the undertaking given by the former Defence Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Kirkcaldy (Dr. Moonie), in the right hon. Lady's debate on 6 March 2003. Officials of the Ministry of Defence and the Home Office have been conducting a joint review on current policy on naturalisation and settlement of Gurkhas, and in particular, they are looking at how current immigration policy impacts on Gurkhas on discharge. That review is nearing completion—[Interruption.] I know that that is a different form of words from that which the right hon. Lady—
Miss Widdecombe: Will the Minister give way?
Mr. Browne: No. I want to deal, as the right hon. Lady requested, with the issue of why it has taken so long.
This is not by any stretch of the imagination as simple as identifying an apparent injustice and seeking to resolve it. As one would have expected, the review has identified complex legal issues, on which complex legal advice is being sought. We need to be sure that we understand what impact change might have in relation, for example, to ensuring that any future policy is not discriminatory, and that the Gurkhas obtain the best advantage from it.
Because we share a common objective that the relationship of the Nepalese people with the Brigade of Gurkhas and the British Army continues, we need to consider the impact on recruitment and retention of Gurkhas, which is not straightforward by any stretch of the imagination, as I am sure that the right hon. Lady appreciates and understands. We need to consider changes to current pension arrangements to ensure that they do not disadvantage Gurkhas. We need to consider the impact on the Nepalese economy. We need to consider ensuring continued cohesion of Gurkha units serving in the British Army. We also need to consider how current immigration policy impacts on Gurkhas, the scope for change, and immigration or work permit concessions. Fundamentally, care needs to be taken to ensure that the practices underpinning the tripartite agreement, which dates back to 1947, are not undermined.
The review has been wide-ranging. It has included discussions of settlement, work permits, naturalisation, and welfare issues, including those affecting
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dependants, and the issues are complex. I hope, however, that we will shortly be able to resolve those issues as the review draws to a conclusion.
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