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Mr. Hoon: I am very conscious of that, which is why I was at pains to emphasise that this is not about the politics of the US election; it is, however, about the politics of the Iraqi election in January.

Mr. Ian Taylor (Esher and Walton) (Con): The Secretary of State convinced the House that the terms of engagement will be sufficiently robust, and I have no doubt that our forces are quite capable of operating outside their current area of operations. The problem is that much of the terrorism that they will take on was inevitable because of the way in which we went into the war. Quite a lot of the problems that we and our American allies are experiencing result from the fact that we did not have a proper plan for the peace. Regardless of what the chiefs of staff say, what does he believe will make the British influence sufficient to ensure that we do not get ourselves sucked further into a morass in Iraq, which is very dangerous and unlikely to be stable before the elections in January?

Mr. Hoon: Generally, I would agree with the hon. Gentleman's premise, but on this occasion I do not quite follow why the current attacks by vicious, brutal and ruthless terrorists have anything to do with the way in which the war was prosecuted. Indeed, many of the
 
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people whom we are trying to deal with in places such as Falluja are not even Iraqi citizens and were not based in Iraq at the time. The truth is that we are trying to deal with people who have killed more Iraqis than they have killed coalition forces—by a huge number. Trying to deal with those people is vital, and I hope that all hon. Members will support that if we are to restore Iraq to the international community and to legitimacy.

Geraldine Smith (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Lab): My right hon. Friend must be aware of the widespread public alarm at the possible deployment of British troops. Does he not realise that what the British people really want is a clearly defined exit strategy from Iraq, not greater commitments and greater danger for our troops out there?

Mr. Hoon: If my hon. Friend will forgive me, I believe that there is a clear exit strategy: it is to ensure that elections can take place and that the security conditions are right to permit those elections and the election of a democratic Iraqi Government, together with, as I indicated, the training of Iraqi police, security forces and a new Iraqi army that increasingly takes responsibility for Iraqi security. That seems to me to be a clear exit strategy, and I hope that she supports it.

Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): May I remind the Secretary of State that 3,000 troops from the Colchester garrison served Queen and country in the Iraq war, a war that we now know was fought under a false prospectus, and that 500 further troops from Colchester served in the peacekeeping? He will be aware that several troops from Colchester lost their lives. He may be of the view that public opinion in this country does not link the request with the American presidential election, but clearly public opinion in this country does. May I ask him specifically whether, if the Black Watch is moved into the American zone, any further British troops will be called in to make up for the gap left by the Black Watch?

Mr. Hoon: I made it clear earlier that that will be one of the considerations that will have to be addressed if we decide to accept this request.

Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Is my right hon. Friend aware that the same President Bush who now wants the British forces to bail him out is the same man who, more than 12 months ago, said that the war was over? Is there not a strange irony about that? Why is it that it has to be done before 2 November? If it is going to be done before then, it is political. It is handing an oxygen cylinder to this President Bush, who was not elected properly the first time, and giving him a lifeline in order to win again. I have to tell my right hon. Friend that I and many others, not only in the House but outside, do not take kindly to the idea that we are being engaged with President Bush and the Pentagon in order to bail them out.

Mr. Hoon: I shall ensure that my hon. Friend's remarks are fully and thoroughly communicated to our American allies as we consider the timing of any request.
 
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Mr. Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con): When the Secretary of State rebuked my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke) for unfortunate generalisations, I assume that he included the Chief of the General Staff, who told the Defence Committee that we fight with the Americans but not necessarily as the Americans. The House will require a great deal of reassurance that this distinction, which is not lost on the Iraqis, can be sustained if this battle group finds itself under American command.

The Secretary of State also said that gaps must be covered. If he is to deploy the divisional reserve, I think that General Rollo and the rest of the troops—particularly those under such pressure in al-Amarah—will want the Secretary of State to be rather more than simply mindful of the need to replace the divisional reserve and give them and the House an assurance that the divisional reserve will be replaced if it is to be deployed under American command.

Mr. Hoon: I think that it is very important that we recognise that all countries have a particular style and way of conducting operations. In response to the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke), I emphasised the importance of not simply generalising about the way in which different countries conduct military operations. There are many parts of Iraq where Americans are keeping the peace no differently from the way in which British soldiers keep the peace in the south of Iraq.

Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Highgate) (Lab): If the request for assistance is, as has been widely reported, to enable American troops to launch an all-out attack on Falluja, why have the British Government not already said no? Such an attack would result in the deaths of innocent Iraqi civilians, the terrorists having long gone, and will serve only to underline the total failure of the American Government to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. Surely it will afford those who are opposed to this country the oxygen to be able to say that one of the best and most highly skilled and disciplined fighting forces in the world—namely the British Army—has been reduced to the level of mercenaries for a Republican White House.

Mr. Hoon: Notwithstanding my hon. Friend's concluding remarks, I hope that she agrees that it is necessary to deal with the kinds of terrorist organisation that are operating from Falluja. It is vital that we deal with that threat to democracy and security. Knowing her very impressive record in condemning injustice, breaches of human rights and murder, I am slightly surprised that she is not saying that this is the right thing for coalition forces—not American forces—to do. As I indicated in response to an earlier question, the final decision as to whether operations are conducted against Falluja will be taken by the Iraqis. It is their country; it is their hearts and minds. If they judge it necessary to deal with the threat to Iraqi citizens, they will be the ones to take the decision.

Sir Teddy Taylor (Rochford and Southend, East) (Con): Although I was one of the minority on the decision to invade Iraq, does the Secretary of State
 
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accept that many people feel that we are not winning the propaganda war in Iraq, especially that for the hearts and minds of the people there? To that extent, may I ask him a simple question: if he goes ahead with putting the extra troops where they are required, will he make it abundantly clear at the same time that the British and American Governments will withdraw their troops when the newly elected Government in Iraq take the view that they can look after the security of the country themselves?

Mr. Hoon: It is vital that the Iraqis are responsible for their own security, which is why British and other coalition forces are engaged in extensive training programmes to equip Iraq with the right kinds of security forces. I do not accept that the hon. Gentleman is right about the battle for hearts and minds and the question of public opinion in Iraq. If some slight good has come from the appalling and tragic death of Ken Bigley, it is that it has shown to huge numbers of people in Iraq and throughout the Arab world the appalling brutality of which the terrorists are capable. There are clear signs that that terrible death has swung opinion firmly on the side of those who are trying to deal with the terrorists.

Mr. Alan Williams (Swansea, West) (Lab): My right hon. Friend referred to political perception. Is it not a political reality that in the US election campaign, the role of the allies has become a central area of dispute between the two candidates? Is it not therefore essential that British troops are not seen as being used to favour one candidate over another?

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