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The Minister for Crime Reduction, Policing and Community Safety (Ms Hazel Blears): We have had an excellent debate, which has highlighted serious issues about guns and drugs and other problems that beset our communities. However, I may have made an error at Home Office questions, when I welcomed the hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr. Mitchell) to the Front Bench. Ear plugs would have been welcome tonight, and I may need them for his future performances.
I shall try to bring some sanity to our debate. It is right that we consider these important matters, particularly in view of the tragic events in Nottingham, Hackney and other parts of the country. The thoughts of everyone in the House are with the families and the friends of people struck by those events. However, it is also important to get the facts right and set our debate in context. I am saddened by the Opposition's attempt to paint the country as crime ridden and to whip up fear of crime among decent, law-abiding citizens. I am also saddened by their failure to acknowledge the tremendous progress that has been made over the past few years. As my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary explained, the Government have a positive record in this area, and I am delighted to put it before the House. Let us get some facts into the debate and get away from the high-flown rhetoric that characterised the contribution of the hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield.
It is an incontrovertible fact that police numbers have increased by more than 12,000 since 1997. It is also an incontrovertible fact that when the Tories were in power, despite their saying that they wanted to recruit an extra 5,000 police officers, they managed to reduce the number of police officers on the street by 1,100. The Opposition often say that they do not like national targets or direction from the centre. They think that the Home Office is interfering when it tries to drive policies through, but they must examine their own record. They put extra money into the police service, but they managed to reduce the number of police officers, which is a pretty inefficient way of operating. Today, there are 4,000 community support officers, who spend 70 per cent. of their time patrolling the streets. They are building relationships with the community and working with schools and hospitals. Again, it is an incontrovertible fact that there were not any community support officers under the Tories.
Mr. Michael Jabez Foster (Hastings and Rye) (Lab): Does my hon. Friend share my concern and distress at the way in which the Opposition demean hard-working community support officers, who are doing such a good job in our constituencies?
Ms Blears:
My hon. Friend is quite right. In a debate in Westminster Hall last Tuesday, the hon. Member for Mid-Worcestershire (Mr. Luff) unfortunately described
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CSOs as "two-thirds police officers". Any CSO described in such terms by his Member of Parliament would feel let down.
I have given the facts on police numbers. We have heard a lot about the British crime survey, which Mr. Richard Garside, the director of the Crime and Society Foundation said in a report provided
"a far more accurate picture of the crimes it measures than . . . police figures."
The survey gives the following factsburglary is down by 42 per cent., which means that 500,000 fewer people are being burgled than under the Tories; vehicle crime is down by 40 per cent., which means that there are 1 million fewer victims than under the Tories; and violence is down by 26 per cent., which means that 380,000 fewer people are subject to violence than under the Tories. In half of all recorded violent crime there is no injury, and half of that crime is fuelled by alcohol, which is why there was such a brilliant campaign against alcohol misuse over the summer.
I shall give the House some more facts. In 200102, gun crime was, I accept, a very serious problem, and increased by 35 per cent. The following year, it was up by just 3 per cent., as we began to get a grip on it; and in the past year, 200304, it was up by just 1 per cent. I would not for a moment suggest that it is not a serious or significant crime, but the number of homicides in which firearms are involved has gone down slightly and the number of robberies with firearms has gone down by 13 per cent. Members who spoke on the issue, including my hon. Friends the Members for Nottingham, South (Alan Simpson) and for Hackney, North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott), made the point that we need to engage communities so that we can fight this scourge together.
Let us have some facts about drugs: 3,000 people went into drug treatment between June and August this year, up nearly 100 per cent. Fact: when the Tories left office, there were fewer than 100,000 treatment places. They never regarded treatment as a priority. It was bottom of the food chain as far as they were concerned. The Government have put nearly £500 million into drug treatment and making sure we break the cycle between drug addiction and crime. We are now seizing £1 million a week from criminal assets and recycling those funds back into the communities to make sure that we are fighting crime.
The final figures that I shall give this eveningI could go on with figures all evening, but I do not want to do thatare an important set of statistics relating to the fear of crime. For the first time all the figures around fear of crime are beginning to come down. Does not that say something about why the Opposition tabled the motion today and engaged in scaremongering? People's fear of burglary, vehicle crime, violent crime and antisocial behaviour is down from 21 per cent. to just 16 per cent. in the past 18 monthsa pretty good result for our determined policies to tackle crime and antisocial behaviour.
We had a depressing contribution from the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (David Davis). He mentioned several areas of concern. He spoke about drugs and residential rehabilitation, which has been an
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obsession of the Tory party, but there was no mention of what happens when people come out of residential rehabilitation. Do we put them back into the same communities? What we have done with our drugs intervention programme is not just get people into treatment, but provide them with education, training, alternative housing and support in their communities to make sure that they do not go straight back into the arms of the dealera well thought through, sensible, thoughtful, practical solution that appears to be alien to the Opposition.
Mr. Hawkins : The Government's flagship policy was drug treatment and testing orders. The latest figures show that 80 per cent. of all those sentenced to those orders reoffend. Does not that show that what the hon. Lady is saying is nonsense? She is living in a dream land and the British public do not believe a word of it.
Ms Blears: Not at all; it is the hon. Gentleman who lives in fantasy-land, but we will leave his fantasy island policies for the moment. The figures on drug treatment and testing orders are pretty early figures. Previously, before we had drug treatment and testing orders, there was no intervention. If the hon. Gentleman was in touch with the real world, he would know that the kind of people who are sentenced to drug treatment and testing orders lead some of the most chaotic lifestyles that could ever be imagined. He ought to recognise that the very early results show 20 per cent. success.
The second area that the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden mentioned was prison places to lock up more people. Again, he did not deal with the question of what happens when people come out of prison. Those are simple headline policies, not thought through and not sensible. He did not speak about the persistent offender strategy that we are developing, which will prevent people from becoming persistent offenders. We will catch and convict those who are and we will resettle and rehabilitate people who come out of our prisons. He did not refer to the fact that we have a higher number of drug treatments going on in our Prison Service than we have ever had. There are about 57,000 detox treatments going on in prison, 44,000 CARATscounselling, assessment, referral, advice and throughcareand 4,000 rehabilitation places. These are sensible, practical policies. I am sorry that the contribution from the right hon. Gentleman was full of headlines today and incoherence tomorrow. It illustrates for me the bankruptcy of the Tory party.
I shall try to deal with as many of the issues that hon. Members raised as I can. The hon. Member for Winchester (Mr. Oaten) mentioned the sale of guns on the internet. I am pleased to be able to tell him that Operation Bembridge was mounted this year, the largest-ever operation consisting of co-ordinated raids of items bought on the internet. It led to more than 100 arrests and hundreds of illegal weapons being seized, together with hand grenades, Semtex, anti-personnel machine guns and machine pistols. That kind of concentrated operation is going on. I was delighted to have the hon. Gentleman's welcome for the Serious Organised Crime Agency. He said that he was warming to fixed penalties. Goodness me, he will be reviewing his policy on antisocial behaviour next, and we will welcome the Liberal Democrats to the fold.
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My hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham, South made a moving speech and expressed the views of his community extremely well. The fact that he said his community would be standing together was important. We will be sending our support and visiting in the next few weeks. We will look at a range of Home Office policies and at how we can help to support those communities so that they become more stable and more safe, and better places for people to live and work in. I pay tribute to him for his contribution, and also to other Nottingham Members for trying to ensure that that happens.
I shall gloss over the contribution of the hon. Member for Surrey Heath (Mr. Hawkins). I was surprised that he did not want to take into account the views of local people. He did not think that information technology worked, but I say to him that, with regard to DNA, automatic number plate recognition and case and custody programmes, I think that he is living in the world of 1940 rather than the modern day policing world.
My hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton (Linda Gilroy) made an excellent contribution, as she usually does. Her work in her area is tremendous. I was delighted to visit the area recently and see the bobbies on the beat project in the new deal for communities area. The dispersal orders have now been used 70 times in the alcohol misuse enforcement campaign, and we have got some extremely good results. The powers to close crack houses have been used 100 times, and we have closed 100 crack houses in Hackney using the powers 11 times there.
The hon. Member for South-West Devon (Mr. Streeter) made some important points about the tragic murder of Flo Seccombe. I am happy to say that I shall look into the matter and I shall certainly write to him. I know that the case has caused a lot of concern locally, and it is a very important matter. That lady was very vulnerable indeed in those circumstances.
My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hall Green (Mr. McCabe) made an excellent contribution. It was a breath of fresh air; it was refreshing and grounded in reality. He talked about the fact that crime was down and about the difficulties associated with buying guns on the internet. I hope that Operation Bembridge will help to reassure him.
The hon. Member for Ashford (Mr. Green) spent an extremely entertaining evening with his police. I am glad that he saw for himself the problems of binge drinking; I hope that he did not indulge. He also brought to our attention issues about stop and search. Some 75 per cent. of knives seized by the Met were found through stop and search, so it is an important power. He is right that we have more to do on detection rates, and forensics and science are very important.
I am sorry that I was not present to listen to the contribution of the hon. Member for Newark (Patrick Mercer). I was delighted that he said that he had a very effective police force. He called for more specialised officers for Nottingham. I appreciate the pressures that exist, but we must ensure that we take action across the piece in the area.
My hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Mr. Dhanda) made an excellent contribution. Crime is down in his area, and waiting times for methadone
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prescribing are down from 16 weeks in 2001 to just five weeks now. That is a significant advance, but we again have more to do.
The hon. Member for Leominster (Mr. Wiggin) talked about young people on intensive supervision programmes. He said that half those programmes had been completed successfully. I am delighted; again, the kind of people that go on ISPs lead very chaotic lifestyles, and we are beginning to get a grip. He also said that people do not want effective community sentences. Yes they do; people in communities are supporting the work that we are doing on drug intervention. His contribution was very disappointinghe had no ideas or policies, and no proposals to make. There were simply empty and depressing complaints and a litany of empty ideas.
My hon. Friend the Member for Hackney, North and Stoke Newington made a very helpful contribution in which she brought to our attention the shadow of gun crime in her constituency. She also highlighted the point that although gun crime is a serious issue, it is very small in comparison with what happens in New York, Chicago and other parts of America. She pointed out that young men are increasingly going out with guns as part of a style culture. We need to ensure that that does not happen in future.
The hon. Member for Bridgwater (Mr. Liddell-Grainger) talked about rural crime and deployment and raised the issue of probation. An extra 1,800 probation officers are now in the service. Clearly, we try to direct our resources to the areas of highest need. Where places are suffering repeat victimisation, such as in some of our poorest communities, it is right that they get resources.
The hon. Member for Upminster (Angela Watkinson) talked about zero tolerance of antisocial behaviour and low-level crime. I am delighted that she supports our proposals to tackle antisocial behaviour, but I am very disappointed that her police force has got only one antisocial behaviour order. If ASBOs were so difficult to obtain, we would not have 2,455 nationally. I have 50 in my constituency.
At the Tory party conference in Bournemouth, the right hon. and learned Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Mr. Howard) made much of his 10 words on policy. I have 10 words
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