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British Council (Africa)
2 pm
Mrs. Claire Curtis-Thomas (Crosby) (Lab): I am delighted to stand here this afternoon, and I must declare an interest right away. This year, I have been immensely fortunate. I joined a scheme managed by the British Council in the UK to twin women Members of Parliament here with women MPs in parts of Africa, and I was fortunate enough to go to Zambia. First, a marvellous woman MP from Zambia, Mrs. Rosemary Chipambe, who represents the community of Nchelenge, spent a week with me, supported by the council, and then I went to see her.
I am also delighted that the director general of the British Council in Zambia could be here today. That is an extraordinary coincidence. As hon. Members will know, applying for a debate in Westminster Hall does not necessarily mean that one will secure a debate here. I told the director general that I intended to apply for a debate when I got home, and I was immensely fortunate in being allocated one the following week. I doubt whether that has happened to many hon. Members, but it is a marvellous set of circumstances and coincidences. I apologise to all those who applied for debates and did not secure them, but at least we are here now to acknowledge the work that the British Council does in Africa.
It is unfortunate but true that most of us hear about Africa only when there is a problem. The difficulties faced by the continent are well known: poverty, lack of access to education and health facilities, HIV/AIDS, the thin skills base, difficulties with the democratic processes, which have not yet been embedded so as to provide equal opportunity and a guide against corruption, and poor leadership. However, that is not the whole story, and I shall use the debate to bring into focus a continent that all hon. Members need to understand better and engage with if we are to have a fair and prosperous world and communities that contribute rather than take from others.
From what I have seen of Africa, I know that it is possible to make a positive difference there, but to do so we must change the nature of our engagement with the people of the continent. We must move from talking to listening and from showing to sharing. I certainly support such a move after my recent trip.
The United Kingdom has had a long and multi-faceted relationship with Africa. It is complicated by a legacy of colonial resentment aggravated by present-day disputes over trade, for example, and the war on terror. It is important to understand that in both the UK and Africa, a generation has grown up that has no direct experience of colonialism, but whereas in this country colonialism is something in history books, many people in Africa, including many young people, still feel that they are living out its consequences.
For almost 70 years, the British Council has been one of the UK's main channels for its engagement with Africa. The first group of student English teachers from west Africa came here to study under British Council auspices in 1936. In the same year, the council sent a British arts exhibition to Johannesburg. Its role in supporting the development of civil society, including those associated with the African National Congress, in
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the late 1980s and early 1990s—the dying years of apartheid in South Africa—helped to provide a strong base for high-level relations in today's era of majority rule. That was recognised by Kader Asmal, South Africa's Minister of Education, who said recently that the British Council continued to play a crucial role in South Africa in supporting its transformation agenda, particularly in the niche areas of education, the arts and culture.
Over that time, the British Council has become a familiar presence on much of the African scene. Today, many Africans, from many different walks of life, have had experience of the UK through the council. One of them, Tejan Kabbah, who lived in the British Council's Hans Crescent hostel when he was a student in London, is now President of Sierra Leone. I met Tejan last year when I went to Sierra Leone. He had only glowing words of praise for the British Council. We have to be immensely proud of an organisation that, through its assistance and support, sees today one of its former luminaries, as it were, as President of Sierra Leone.
In Ghana, President Kufuor also speaks of his student days in the British Council library in Kumasi. Opening the council's new IT-based knowledge and learning centre in Accra earlier this year, he contrasted today's high-tech facilities and its pioneering access for Ghanaians with the World Bank's global distance learning network, saying,
"The services of the British Council provide a vital backdrop to strengthening the formal diplomatic and bilateral relations between our two countries".
The experience of the British Council in Africa—it would be well for all of us to listen to what it has to say—is that given a mixed history of mixed access to opportunities, there is a suspicion of western motives across the continent. If we in this country want to engage with Africans we need to work with them in ways that they believe are of benefit to them, not just to us—practical help rather than patronage.
From what I have seen of the British Council's work, that is what I believe we are doing. We are not patronising; we are desperately trying to help and engage communities about which we care and feel passionately. I welcome the active role that the British Council is playing to ensure that its approach is tailored to the principles of the NEPAD—New Partnership for Africa's Development—initiative, which seeks firmly to ensure that ownership lies with the Africans themselves. I was also pleased to see that the council is working with the Commission for Africa and has attached a senior member of staff to work inside the commission. That is a fantastic initiative from our Prime Minister that needs to be applauded.
Today the British Council is represented in 19 countries across sub-Saharan Africa and manages a turnover of almost £18 million. Given that the British Council programme reaches tens of thousands of Africans, that strikes me as good value for money. When we factor in the wider reach that the British Council is achieving through the cascading of its work through change agents, we see that it is clear that it is having a wider and deeper impact than the sums of money would suggest. Let us take, for example, the numbers reached through partnership of education reform or English language capacity building, which is a particular forte—a jewel in our crown—for the British Council in Zambia.
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It is clear that the prospects of many millions of people have been improved by the British Council's work. It is also having an impact through new and imaginative approaches. It has a syndicated music programme called "Selector", broadcasting the best of contemporary British music to audiences of hundreds of thousands of Africans every week, making the return on the investment even greater.
I wish to take a few moments to tell hon. Members an anecdote. I visited the community of Nchelenge, which has nothing: no water or electricity. It is a very poor community of 130,000 people in north-west Africa. There is a hospital of sorts run by a missionary of nuns. When they asked me for a meal I was delighted to go, because the accommodation in Nchelenge is challenging by our standards. I got used to the cockroaches; it was the rats that got to me. When the nuns offered me a nice meal in the missionary I took up their offer, only to arrive to find them watching BBC News 24 on their satellite television. They told me that it was the best programme that they watched, and that they did so everyday. At the time, the service was broadcasting the latest antics of Roy Keane, and they talked about him as if they knew him intimately and well. I was thunderstruck that 700 miles along the road from Lusaka, where there was no transport or anything else, the BBC was reaching out to a community of people in deepest Africa. They were thrilled with the presentation. The intimacy of BBC News 24 was brought to me on that occasion.
As well as networking and bringing together people through the education programme, the British Council is also responsible for a programme that seeks not only to develop and bring on young leaders within their country, but to link them with their peers throughout Africa. The programme, which is called Interaction, also puts them in touch with people in this country, sometimes through face-to-face meetings, but its major feature is a cutting-edge website that allows them to stay in touch remotely—a facility that also gives them access to the knowledge stored in hundreds of specialist journals. The British Council uses Interaction to provide leadership training to 1,500 young African leaders, each of whom will be inspired to change the lives of thousands or perhaps millions of people. Let us hope that they do so.
Hon. Members may be surprised to hear that web-based technologies are appropriate for Africa, but that is the new reality of the continent, and the British Council is increasing its investment in electronic services. That will extend the organisation's traditional role as the provider of information through libraries. In the near future, those services will be available not only through British Council offices in capital cities, but through a growing network of cyber cafés in some of the remotest parts of Africa. Let us hope that a cyber café gets to that hospital in Nchelenge.
I do not want to create the impression that it is all plain sailing. If there are to be improvements in political accountability, democratic participation and human rights, Africans and those working with them need to address some pervasive and highly sensitive issues. In Africa, there is a lot to be critical about, but sometimes tackling the issues head on only puts people's backs up, especially among those who are well aware of the shortcomings of the human rights record of European powers in Africa.
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The British Council has found a creative solution to tackling the issue of holding the powerful to account through an exhibition of political graphics from the UK called "Upfront and Personal", which toured southern Africa earlier this year. It was well received in South Africa, where there is a culture of brash, in-your-face political advocacy, but the situation in Botswana and Mozambique is very different. I understand that there was some nervousness about how such a forthright challenge to the establishment would be received.
The exhibition worked in those countries because the establishment had to be challenged. It was a challenge to show how graphic illustrators, designers and cartoonists have attempted to keep the mighty on their toes in this country. We invited people in South Africa to think about how they handled freedom of expression in their own societies. At the opening of the exhibition in Gaborone, the Minister of Communications, Science and Technology asked whether Botswana was ready for such an exhibition. He was immediately answered his own question by saying, "Hell, yes. Let's go for it."
The ways in which the British Council is working in partnership with Africa include "Dreams and teams", an international programme aimed at developing young leaders through sport. It was launched in 2001 and now operates in 20 countries worldwide, including seven in Africa. Young people, teachers and youth leaders in the UK and Africa are trained to organise inclusive sports festivals and join a school link project. They learn by doing—in teamwork, communication and inclusion. The shared language of sport is an easy way into cultural exchange, enabling mutual learning between north and south.
The British Council is developing sport as a tool for education in Africa, and it aims to pilot sports programmes in schools this year, with "Dreams and teams" forming a key component of the life-skills training syllabus. As to school links, the Department for International Development has a marvellous programme called the global schools partnership, a consortium initiative between Cambridge Education Foundation and Voluntary Service Overseas that promotes sustainable partnerships between Africa and UK schools; for example, a school in Malawi is partnered with a school in Norfolk. That link has facilitated reciprocal visits and joint curriculum work, but I know, especially through the churches in the UK and their work with the British Council, that there are huge numbers of informal linkages between schools in Britain and schools in Africa. They are immensely rewarding experiences for teachers and pupils here and in Africa.
I said that we needed to talk to Africans; when we do, they tell us that what they want are our voices. Rosemary Chipambe, my counterpart MP in Zambia said to me, "We both have a voice and we can both utter the same words, Claire, but your words will be heard much louder than mine." We must try to reach a point in our global history when all people's voices carry equal weight and when all people are heard equally by those who influence their lives.
My experience of the British Council in Zambia was extraordinarily good, and I would encourage any Member of Parliament who has not approached the British Council about undertaking an exchange visit to do so. Our representatives in such countries are
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outstanding. Last year, on a visit to Sierra Leone, I met the head of the British Council there. He had a most difficult job and was dealing with a very brutalised society. He did extraordinarily well and has broken down huge numbers of barriers between himself and the administrative authorities. The British Army is still there, doing a magnificent job. The head of the British Council was on a single secondment, so he had left his family behind in the UK—he was a man of remarkable dedication. Apart from doing all the things that I love, such as promoting science, engineering and education, he did a fantastic amount to help with the development of culture in Sierra Leone.
When I went to Zambia a couple of weeks ago, I was met by John Mitchell, the director of the British Council there. He came to meet me personally and took me to his home; it was a wonderful welcome. The British Council is clearly well networked through John, who knows everyone and anyone, including members of the Government. There is a real emphasis on working together to enable the Africans to achieve not our objectives, but theirs. British resources are being put at the disposal of wonderful people who need them to achieve their potential.
The British Council works not only with other bureaucratic administrations, but with the voluntary sector and non-governmental organisations, which are numerous throughout Africa. The task faced by British Council officers such as John Mitchell is to reach out to all those agencies to maximise the benefits that we deliver in such nations.
John has to administer several grant programmes, including the Chevening awards. I told him that the funding for the awards had been reduced and that I was sorry about that because they produced fantastic returns. We get huge benefits for very little money, and I would ask colleagues in DFID and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to look again at the awards. They are made in a number of categories, but those chosen this year do not include engineering. As colleagues will know, I am a chartered engineer by profession, and I am desperately concerned about the absence of engineering as a discrete category. Africa can receive a huge amount of investment, and people want to invest and do well there, but unless there is an indigenous population of technicians and engineers, all the investment will be wasted. A huge $10 million water installation could be built in the Nchelenge community, for example, but the company that I spoke to said that it would not build the installation unless there was a community of Africans who could manage it. It is desperately important to increase the number of engineers in Africa, because engineers build the beautiful, clean and safe communities that people need.
To conclude, the British Council's work in Africa is extraordinary, and I am grateful to have had the opportunity publicly to applaud it. I hope that the Government continue to support the British Council and people such as John Mitchell.
Vera Baird (Redcar) (Lab): My hon. Friend has given an impressive catalogue of the British Council's activities. Does she agree that one of its great characteristics is that it is very well networked and
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therefore able to take on issues that can be difficult in some African states? I was recently lucky enough to go on an exchange visit of the kind that she has just been on and which triggered this debate. The British Council asked me to go to Ethiopia to teach the judiciary how to deal with domestic violence cases. That is a very difficult thing to do. For one thing, the British cannot go there and pretend for one minute to have all the answers. For another, one had to contend with a very old-fashioned attitude among the judiciary, which was buttressed by a pretty out-of-date constitution. The position has now changed, but the constitution originally gave a man the right to a defence if he struck his wife because she did not obey him. Persuading judges that they should look at the new constitution as it grew and that its equality clauses had to override that old law was a very diplomatic job, from which the British Council did not shrink—
Mr. Bill O'Brien (in the Chair): Order. Interventions must be brief.
Mrs. Curtis-Thomas : I fully understand the point that my hon. and learned Friend makes.
When I was in Sierra Leone, the British Army was there trying to bring order through training the army. The British Government involvement in the reconstruction of Sierra Leone also means that we are substantially supporting its law courts and law network, and the police service and the training of the police. Support for those institutions is essential in trying to ensure that a country is brought back to the point of having a judiciary that acts both in a way that is not corrupt and in the best interests of the people whom it serves. That is an immensely challenging task, as the problem is all over Africa.
I am very concerned, as the vast majority of women throughout the world would be, about the level of female genital mutilation that occurs in Africa. Tackling that is—
Mr. Bill O'Brien (in the Chair): Order. May I ask the hon. Lady to address the Chair, please?
Mrs. Curtis-Thomas : I have difficulty looking both ways, Mr. O'Brien, and I do not want to miss hon. Members who might want to intervene, but I would not wish to insult you for one moment.
I think, however, that I have brought my remarks to a close.
2.21 pm
Mr. Derek Wyatt (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Lab): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Crosby (Mrs. Curtis-Thomas) not only on securing the debate, which I think is the first on the subject in this Session, but on her enthusiasm for and dedication to the British Council. I also congratulate her on the way in which she has participated in the exchange with other women MPs, some of whom are present.
I congratulate David Green, the director general of the British Council, who was knighted in June this year. That was a wonderful thing—it was well deserved, because he is such a marvellous director general.
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Neil Kinnock will become chairman of the council in November, and that will complement David's role. There are exciting times ahead for the British Council.
I chair the all-party British Council group. We will soon be extending the way in which we work in the House by announcing an MPs' ambassador role for the British Council, so that particular MPs' interests, such as the women's movement or equality and justice, will be twinned with a country.
When we started the all-party group seven years ago, I said to David Green that the two things that he should concentrate on were IT for Africa and sport. I think that he thought that I was barking mad. If one travelled to British Council offices across Africa eight years ago, one saw that hardly anyone had computers and no one had servers in their offices. The wonderful thing is that now they have not just one computer but, sometimes, 60 or 120. Where they had one server, now they have two, three or four.
A remarkable change has happened to the British Council—a silent revolution. That means that thousands and thousands of local people in each of the countries in Africa can come to the British Council, can see a paper that has not been restricted by the local government, can catch up with world affairs and can have conversations that they cannot always have in their villages and towns. We need to do more on the IT area, and I shall say more about that later.
In the "Dreams and teams" programme, the soccer has been sensationally successful. We have learned from our experience that it is no good turning up with 25 Nike balls and 25 football shirts, because those will get sold on the black market the day that we leave. We have concentrated on finding local leaders who can run local soccer teams when we have left, and that has been terrifically successful.
The Government can be proud of their record with the British Council. We have had seven years of increases in funding. It is never easy for the British Council, because every time there is a change in the world, it is asked to do more. We asked it to look after all the "stans" in the former Soviet Union—to open more premises there. We have asked it to do more in the middle east, especially since 9/11. Its funds are finite, and it tries its best, but it always wants more. We should be as supportive as we can. If we were to ask it how it views the next seven or eight years, perhaps it would say that we need its presence not in western Europe, but in the middle east and Africa.
The British Council is one of the three great ambassadors for the country in Africa, the other two being the Open university and BBC World Service. People are always surprised when I mention the Open university. I mention it not just because I am a graduate of it, but because it has educated 5 million Africans and is the largest university in Africa. Ethiopia and Eritrea had a 20-year war of attrition, which did no one any good. When Ethiopia eventually took the democratic path, 23 of its 25 Cabinet Ministers took MBAs. The Prime Minister got the third highest MBA ever recorded at the Open university.
We have created things to be proud of—Jennie Lee and Harold Wilson should be smiling in their graves about the extent of the Open university. The BBC World
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Service keeps getting better. It is good that the British Council has signed a memorandum of understanding with the Open university and the BBC World Service.
This week in the House of Commons is a typical week for the British Council. On Monday, the all-party groups on Zimbabwe and on the British Council met. We heard from David Martin, the British Council's director of central Africa, on the problems of trying to handle Zimbabwe in its current phase. He gave a remarkably poignant and telling speech, and was not shy about taking hard questions from hon. Members.
Yesterday, my right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman) hosted a lunch for African literature and what the British Council is doing with Margaret Meyer. This is a difficult time for African literature, and I ask the British Council to reconsider its role.
The two great British publishing houses, Macmillan and Heinemann, which have been consumed by other companies over the past 10 years, no longer publish African literature. The only way in which African literature could come to the notice of the rest of the world was through the two imprimaturs in those two big publishing companies, but that is no longer the case.
I wonder whether the British Council could find a way to create a small publishing house with the Department for International Development and with perhaps a private enterprise such as the Commonwealth Development Corporation, so that we could publish such novels and bring them to the attention of the rest of the world. It is a sad day when books are burned, as they were in Germany in the 1930s, and it is as sad a day when we can find no way to publish talented poets and writers in Africa.
I have been lucky enough to spend time with British Council officials in Egypt, Ethiopia, Malawi, Zambia, Tanzania, Mozambique, Namibia, Botswana, Kenya and Tunisia. Africa is in my skin: I was brought up in Nigeria and I simply cannot get away from it. Generally, the quality of people in our British Council offices is second to none, and they work fantastically well under trying conditions. I ask a small favour. After 16 November, when we will be able formally to start highlighting our bid for the Olympics, we could provide every British Council officer with a tape of the London bid, so that they can act as apostles and fans to help us to win.
I will finish with these three thoughts. First, we could take the Open university idea wider with the Commission for Africa, on which the British Council has a seat. Mbeke's brother—I am trying to remember his Christian name—said in his report for the South African foreign policy think-tank that facilities and education for children in primary schools are now much worse than they were under Britain, France, Germany or Italy. We could have a big idea: Open university for schools. We could call it "free school TV" and put it up in English and 10 to 15 other languages simultaneously via broadband and satellite. We could use solar energy as the source, and use the cheap £50 computer systems that are now available to carry out a primary school revolution for Africa. If there is one thing that the commission could do, it is that. I should welcome the Minister's thoughts on that.
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Secondly, every year, 2 billion people try to learn English. It is a lot to ask of the British Council to take care of that, although it raises considerable funds, which it uses well. There is business to be had through BBC Worldwide, the Open university and the British Council in creating a teaching online service for English.
Lastly, a new movement is on its way from America, started by a professor called Lawrence Lessig, of Stanford university. It is called the creative commons. The idea is that, as one uses a small letter "c" for "copyright", one would use two for "creative commons". They would be used to allow copyright to lapse, or to be used. The website has been visited by 1.5 million people to release their copyright in music, art and books that they have written in the past 10 or 15 years, so that we can share.
For example, Gilberto Gil, a fantastic jazz musician in Brazil who is also the Arts Minister in the Brazilian Government, has persuaded the artistic and music community in Brazil to release all their art and music for free use outside Brazil, so that Brazilian music can come to the fore on the radio and online. How wonderful it would be if we could use the creative commons idea to free up copyright and to enable education to happen faster in Africa.
2.31 pm
Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab): I am delighted to be able to take part in the debate, as I, too, have been a participant in a British Council exchange programme. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Crosby (Mrs. Curtis-Thomas) on obtaining this debate and so expertly setting out the picture of the British Council in Africa. I shall not repeat the points that she has covered, but will talk about what happened on my visit. I also congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Mr. Wyatt), because he has not only shown immense dedication, as a parliamentarian, to the British Council and everything that it stands for, but contributed innovative ideas and suggestions, which I hope may be taken forward.
I was part of the women's exchange that was just called "Big cars and leaking roofs". The MPs have the big cars and the people have the leaking roofs. There is a perception in Africa that all MPs line their own pockets and do not care about their constituents. That was certainly not true of the twinned MP whom I met in Zambia and who visited my constituency, the hon. Rose Banda of Milanzi constituency in the eastern province of Zambia. Her dedication is as deep as that of any Member of this House, but the difficulties that she faces in carrying out her tasks are beyond the imagination of most of us.
I have had the good fortune to travel quite widely, but I had never been, until May 2003, to any of the poorest African countries. I thought that I had known all my life what it would be like in such a place, but, of course, the reality is much starker. The contrast between my constituency, which is one of the poorest in the UK, and Rose's constituency, one of the poorest in Africa, was extraordinary.
First, there are 60,000 registered voters in my constituency. Although, of course, I cannot visit them all, I can visit the whole constituency in a day. It is
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an inner-city constituency. Rose Banda has a mere 2,000 registered voters, but it takes two weeks to visit all the villages in her constituency.
We spent some of our time in a variety of meetings in Lusaka. One was with women MPs, the women's caucus of the Parliament. The minute we sat down—and I have to say that the meeting was extremely well organised and the majority of women MPs attended, even though the House was not sitting on that day—we found that our experiences as parliamentarians and as candidates were similar, as were our experiences of political parties.
We are the second-class gender in every Parliament and in every political party. There is no question about that. The women had faced the kinds of discriminations and difficulties with which we are all familiar in the west. We have had so much good fortune, and we have made such strides to equal gender representation, particularly in our party, that I was able to offer encouragement. I was able to talk from my experience and say that we might be in a much better position today, but that when I came into the House, there were just 37 women. We have made progress.
The women's caucus has no place to meet in that Parliament. Its members have no women's rooms; they have none of the facilities that we have gained for ourselves. However, we were able to talk about how they could move forward and not be totally discouraged. At that level, meeting with parliamentarians in the Parliament, I felt that I could make a contribution and thanked the British Council, because it had made me feel that I had been of some use there.
The highlight was the visit to the constituency. It takes seven hours to travel from the capital to the border of the constituency, and the border was vital to us, because there was a bed-and-breakfast establishment there. It was quite simple, but it had a hot water supply, a bath, hot food, electricity and mosquito nets over the beds. None of those, I was to find, were available in the constituency.
In that constituency, I saw for the first time people who would engage with me on every topic of conversation that was of interest—about the world, Africa, Zambia, and the UK—and we could have all those conversations, but they had absolutely none of the necessities that I found in the bed and breakfast to which we gratefully returned late each night. There is no electricity in the whole of the province, and no running water. There are none of the things that we now take for granted, particularly in education, such as access to computers or mobile phones.
Everything had to be made by the people themselves. Everything had to be traded or bought by people walking huge distances. It was most poignant to see all the huge plastic carrying cans—a western technology with which we are more than familiar. We have too much plastic; we have a problem disposing of it. There, each can is made to the greatest size possible, which even children have to carry when they are full of water—muddy, dangerous and diseased water from the river. Unless they carry that water daily, they have no means of washing or preparing food, and no water to drink.
Disease was clearly a major factor. One in five Zambians are, I think, infected with HIV/AIDS. In the whole time that I was there and travelling huge
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distances, we were able to find only one tiny clinic. Let us imagine a clinic that does not have a hot water system, and has no means of sterilisation. It was well stocked with drugs, because the world community, in various guises, was providing drugs. However, the most fundamental matters, such as sufficient room to examine people properly, were lacking—there was only one examination room. All the women who were giving birth needed to travel to that small clinic.
The basic nature of the facilities was so extreme that I could not but marvel at the way in which the people were entirely resilient and optimistic, struggling to achieve. I saw that in the schools, for example. People had gone to the muddy rivers, got the mud, carried it back—mud is jolly heavy—and made bricks. In one place, 1,000 bricks had been dried in the sun and were ready to use to make the walls of a school, or a schoolhouse for a teacher. However, there was no cement and, because of that, the 1,000 bricks would lie on the floor for a couple more years.
I went to schools that had no glass in the windows. Of course, that does not matter in the middle of a hot period. However, if it is teeming with rain or bitterly cold, it matters a great deal. Then, there were the leaky roofs. There were leaky roofs everywhere, and every village needed metal to seal the holes or to replace a roof that had blown off—a frequent occurrence, it seems. I went to a courthouse, a little wooden building with thatching, which had been almost eaten away by termites.
I had always known about people's daily struggle to live, but there is no substitute for seeing something with one's own eyes. I can tell the British Council that that is an incredibly important experience for western politicians to have. However, it is also vital that, having had the experience, we should understand what is needed and be in a position to try to meet those needs.
I went with Rose to visit the British high commissioner and to ask, "Why is the UK not making any funds available to eastern province in Zambia?" He explained quite reasonably that our Government were trying to help the Zambian Government to progress towards greater democracy, accountability and efficiency, province by province. I had to tell him that the need for help is there now. It costs so little—£4—to get a mosquito net to save the lives of newborn babies. It costs very little to equip a simple clinic or to provide a sewing machine so that women can sew cloth and sell it at market. They are prepared to walk to make sales if they can, but they have to have the basic equipment. It costs little to provide hoes for basic agriculture.
I could see all the things that Rose and her people were telling me about. They said, "Help us; we want to work, and we will do all that we can to help ourselves. We will construct our own schools,"—they had already done so in many cases—"We will dig our own latrines. We accept that we are living in a situation in which we will not get electricity or running water tomorrow." At that time, we were not able to help. However, now—I am sure that it has nothing to do with my visit—the UK Government are giving money to the eastern
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province and Rose's constituents have received promises of £10,000 to assist the organisations that she has worked to set up in her community.
Let me talk about those organisations. They are primarily women's clubs. The women I saw were very organised. Wherever they could, on the tiniest sums of money, they produced the smallest amount of produce that could be sold. I saw them hoeing fields in which they had said that they would grow crops not just for their families but for the whole community, and would use them to obtain money to look after the orphans. Every village has a huge number of orphans because of HIV/AIDS, and the women organise themselves to look after those children, many of whom have no parents or grandparents. The poorest people there are looking after the most disadvantaged in the world.
I saw people not only doing physical things, such as trying to get money and using it for good causes, but engaging in self-education.
2.44 pm
Sitting suspended for a Division in the House.
2.56 pm
On resuming—
Joan Ruddock : I was talking with some enthusiasm about how Zambian women are helping themselves and doing much for their communities.
I want to describe how those women are working in education. Some are teachers, but the women's clubs in the Milanzi constituency are primarily putting on theatre performances and educating whole villages about HIV/AIDS and the things that can happen to young women. I saw a most extraordinary performance, as good as anything that I could have seen in a fringe theatre in London. The message went across to children, young people and adults—both male and female. All sat and watched the performance by the women. It takes great courage, time and organisation to put on a theatre performance, and I remind hon. Members that those women were doing that without any of the props, opportunities or finance that any theatre group in Britain would expect.
Rose Banda has now organised those women's clubs into two overarching organisations: "Shading the Shame", which is an HIV/AIDS project, and the Milanzi HIV/AIDS care and support foundation. It is her intention—I hope that we can help her—to ensure that NGO funding can be directed through those umbrella organisations at the clubs, which are self-helping, committed to the community and primarily run by women.
We need to work with MPs in other countries on the mechanisms for accessing aid, which has proved extremely difficult. Few NGOs operate in that part of Zambia, and I have not had much success in persuading more to get involved with the people of Milanzi. However, I will keep trying, and the result of the programme is that I now see myself, to a degree, as one of the champions for the people of Zambia. As I have mentioned, the high commission has already adopted projects through DFID in eastern province, but much more is needed. I shall keep pressing for more help to be given to Zambia.
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I want to draw hon. Members' attention to the country's position with its debt payments. I hope that my hon. Friend who will reply to the debate may be able to pass this on to appropriate Ministers. I understand from a recently released report about education in Zambia that was co-authored by Oxfam and VSO that the Zambian Government will pay $377 million dollars in debt repayments compared with $221 million on education, and that there are between 8,000 and 9,000 unemployed teachers in that country. They are qualified teachers who are able to work but whom the Government are unable to pay—education is entirely a Government service—because of the limits that the International Monetary Fund has placed on Government expenditure. There is surely a need to separate the fundamental needs for basic education and basic health care from all the other aspects of governance and IMF funding. Zambia and many other African countries need that.
I am also working on a twinning arrangement for Kagora basic school. The people there asked me whether I could find a school in my constituency, and I am delighted to say that that has now happened; I hope that Haberdashers' Aske's will be involved in the twinning process. We can imagine how difficult that will be. The children in Zambia will not be able to communicate in the usual way. Somebody from the school will have to travel along those terrible roads and deal with all the other difficulties to get to the nearest place where they can pick up an e-mail or a letter. That will be difficult. It would be so much easier if they had their solar-powered computer and their satellite phone connection, as my hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey proposed.
We must do such things. It will never be possible to deliver piped water and electricity to those tiny communities in the old-fashioned way. We need new ideas and new mechanisms. That is what we can contribute; we can share our knowledge and expertise with them. I would hate it if the people of Milanzi were forced to move lock, stock and barrel into the cities, where they would encounter a new and, in some senses, an even more difficult lifestyle and greater deprivation.
I pay tribute again to the British Council. I echo everything that previous speakers have said. I was recently in Russia, where I saw the magnificent work that it is doing there and its hugely imaginative programmes. I have no doubt that this twinning arrangement has been of great value. I hope that it will continue, and I am very grateful for having had the opportunity to participate in it.
3.2 pm
Valerie Davey (Bristol, West) (Lab): I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Crosby (Mrs. Curtis-Thomas) on securing this debate. Like her, I have shared in the twinning arrangement that the British Council in east Africa has so imaginatively developed. My twin, the hon. Ruth Msafiri, is a Tanzanian MP. She came here in November 2002, and I returned the visit in February the following year. I have had an opportunity to share that experience with Members. Therefore, while keeping much of that in
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mind and using it, I want to talk briefly about a return visit that I was able to make to Tanzania this year as a member of the Parliamentary Commonwealth Association. I met Ruth again and found out more about developments, particularly in education, which I want to share with hon. Members shortly.
First, however, I shall highlight the British Council's continuing work in Tanzania, and pay tribute to it. One of its key projects remains the politics of the future. That includes training for women MPs, but it goes much further. The politics of the future or POF programme includes computer training; training in key parliamentary procedures; planning and budgeting of central Government; understanding electoral law, which has changed recently in Tanzania; campaign management; fundraising; lobbying skills; and working with the media. That is the kind of background training that any current parliamentary candidate or new Member would value. However, as we can imagine, that is particularly the case in a situation where women especially are newly coming into office.
Work is also being done by the centre for international development at the state university of New York. We met Donna Bugby-Smith, who works out of the British Council office on a project to empower people and institutions to develop their own capabilities—a definition that I read out carefully, because it is important to stress the phrase "their own capabilities". We are working not only with MPs, but with civil society—non-governmental organisations and those working for HIV/AIDS organisations and on local community development projects—and enabling them to understand their role in local, regional and national society and within the Government.
Our visit was very positive and very purposeful, yet more than 1,000 teachers a year are dying from HIV/AIDS in Tanzania. It is a struggle simply to maintain the existing number of teachers in that country, let alone to meet the need to develop education further, and especially primary education, in line with the millennium projects and the call of the Commission for Africa.
I return to my visit to a teacher training college, Katoke, in Ruth Msafiri's constituency of Muleba, North on the shores of Lake Victoria. The college has no computers, a library that has not been restocked since the 1970s and a crying need for solar computers. I heartily commend my hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Mr. Wyatt) on his vision of an open school. That is exactly what is needed. The idea of carting outdated textbooks to schools such as those in Ruth Msafiri's constituency should not be entertained any longer.
We must get solar computers into remote villages, but most of all we need to get help to the teacher's training college, which provides mainly textbook resource and training to 500 primary school teachers. Enriching the value of that training and education would have a huge impact on the whole of Ruth Msafiri's constituency. I have a large constituency of some 84,000 constituents. Ruth Msafiri has at least 100,000, but she does not really know how many there are. There are some 50 primary
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schools of varying quality in her area, but at the time of my visit there were only two secondary schools for the whole constituency.
There is an urgent need at higher education level to train sufficient numbers of people at a sufficient level to train the teachers. Fortuitously, Bristol university's education department is twinned with the education department at Dar es Salaam university, but it does not seem to be a long-term twinning with the underpinning of finance and support that is needed to develop the relationship throughout the country or to ensure that its impact is felt in Tanzania. Indeed, it is crucial to recognise how essential African students of all countries are to higher education internationally.
I particularly wanted to speak today about the British Council report, "Vision 2020: Forecasting International Student Mobility—A UK Perspective", which was published this spring. It examines the need for this country to keep its share of the market in overseas students coming to this country or through e-learning in order that our higher education economy might be boosted.
The Prime Minister challenged the British Council to bring some 75,000 extra overseas students to this country, and it has delivered. The contribution from students from all over the world enriches our universities, and also sends students back all over the world with an understanding of Britain and an ability to share that experience in their own countries. Those students usually become friends of Britain for life.
The whole report emphasised the need for paying students, or students who can afford to pay. As a Government, we need to consider more carefully how we encourage students from Africa who are unable to pay the fees to come to this country. I looked at the work of the British Council in Tanzania in that respect; in 2003, the country had nine Chevening and Commonwealth scholars, and in 2004 it had 10, thanks to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. There is some higher education link work to the value of more than £90,000, but it comes from the Department for International Development. It is not mainstream education funding in line with the Commission for Africa and the millennium goal for education. The Government received the British Council report very warmly, but I ask them to reconsider it in the context of how many students can come here from African countries to which they would take back their learning and experience. That would enhance the quality of education in many developing African countries, and that is my plea.
I shall end with an anecdote, to which I made a small contribution, and an important fact. This summer, I was introduced to the Prime Minister of Tanzania as Valerie Davey, and he said, "Mrs. Davey?" I said "Yes", and he said, "You taught me at Ilboru school." That was in the 1960s, I have to admit, but it was a stunning moment in my visit. We should remember that the former President of Tanzania, President Nyerere, a statesman of Africa and of the world, is a former student of Edinburgh university. Such links are extremely valuable and we should look again at the status of students from Africa who are unable to pay the fees.
Mr. Bill O'Brien (in the Chair): I remind hon. Members who are winding up the debate that it has to conclude at 3.44 pm.
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3.12 pm
Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): I congratulate the hon. Member for Crosby (Mrs. Curtis-Thomas) on securing the debate. At the beginning of the debate, she was breathless; I was not sure whether she had run up the stairs to get here on time or whether she was breathless at the prospect of Neil Kinnock joining the British Council. However, she made it clear later that she was excited about her shadowing experience—a feeling that was echoed by other hon. Members.
I am happy to join other hon. Members in giving plaudits to the work of the British Council. It helpfully supplied statistics, which are outstanding: it works in 220 towns and cities in 110 countries—I suspect that few organisations can make a similar claim—teaching English to more than half a million people. It collaborates in almost 2,000 arts events globally and has an earning potential of almost £200 million from clients and customers worldwide. Those are impressive statistics.
The British Council has been well established in a number of countries for a very long time. It has been in Botswana since 1972, in Cameroon since 1970, in Eritrea since 1971 and in Ethiopia since 1942, although it closed there in 1951 and reopened in 1960. Its long-term commitment to Africa is very welcome, and I am pleased that there has been a funding commitment from the Chancellor, who announced on 12 July that the budget would increase from £173 million to £197 million in 2007–08. The British Council receives a reasonable stream of contracts from DFID, among others.
One minor point to which I hope the hon. Gentleman will respond in winding up is that although the stream of contracts that the British Council receives is welcome, it fluctuates significantly from one year to the next. I received a parliamentary answer yesterday saying that the figure had gone from £24 million in 1999–2000 to £17 million in 2000–01, down further to £10 million in 2001–02, back up to just less than £20 million in 2002–03 and finally down to £13 million in 2003–04. The British Council might find it hard to accommodate those fluctuations.
The focus that the British Council puts on to Africa is important and pertinent. In the long-term, given that DFID's budget has changed to support the poorest countries more, I wonder whether the British Council should, similarly, focus its efforts on the poorest countries. I was interested to hear the detail of the work shadowing experience of a number of Members, particularly the point about Members of Parliaments in certain African countries being expected to provide money to their constituents. I was fortunate enough to visit Ghana a month or so ago, on a trip sponsored by Oxfam.
I raised that point with a Ghanaian MP whom I happened to meet and he said, "Oh yes, that is very true. In fact, I came home one day to find a constituent who had left a dead body on my doorstep and who said, 'Unless you give me some money to bury that dead body, I'm going to leave it on your doorstep.'" Sure enough, that MP had to cough up. The prospect of having a dead body on one's doorstep would encourage anyone to provide the money. Expectations need to be
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managed, but I would not like this country to go down that route in terms of people's expectations of what we can deliver.
I was interested to see the seven participating countries in the shadowing scheme: Eritrea, Ethiopia, Kenya, Malawi, Tanzania, Uganda and Zambia. I shall return to Kenya's involvement shortly.
Mrs. Curtis-Thomas : I am interested to hear the hon. Gentleman talk about the perceptions of Members of African Parliaments. They do things that we would not have to do. I learned that what sometimes appears to us as corruption is, for many Members of African Parliaments, being in a no-choice position. They are seen as a source of income in their communities, and they have far greater responsibilities for the support of families than we would ever have simply because there is no welfare, pension or care structure in place. Normally, a Member of an African Parliament is considered the person of last resort.
Tom Brake : I agree entirely with the hon. Lady. It is interesting that the work shadowing focused on improving the representation of women in Parliament, which I support. Unfortunately, the UK does worse in terms of representation—I must admit that my party does not help in this respect—than three of the countries that have signed up to millennium development goals, which require the countries concerned to improve their representation. We have something to respond to here as well.
Helen Jackson (Sheffield, Hillsborough) (Lab): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Crosby (Mrs. Curtis-Thomas) on securing this debate.
Malawi was my patch. Would the hon. Gentleman be interested in my main thought in following the work, which was that governance was the issue? Governance is so often mentioned as a key priority. Bringing women into public life not only in Parliament, but across the level is an aspect of governance and something on which the British Council has worked creatively in Malawi by bringing civil society, local people and Members of Parliament together to understand how, by working together, they could contribute to governance and a different, more democratic way of going about things.
Tom Brake : Again, I agree entirely. The involvement of women is clearly not only about representation at parliamentary level, but about involvement with non-governmental organisations, civil society and so on.
I am interested in the British Council's pan-African projects, and I support their aims. An organization that can act as an advocate on Britain's behalf is important. It has become harder for the UK to put across its point of view, because of what has happened in Iraq. The British Council should be able to respond to that challenge. The perception of the UK has changed; that is certainly the impression that I get from my contacts.
As to the leadership proposal, I should be interested to know how the 1,500 potential leaders will be identified and how they will be prevented from deriving personal benefit from taking part in the scheme, as set
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out in the documentation. To what extent can the British Council or others involved in the initiative ensure that, for instance, certain disadvantaged sectors of society, such as people who might be excluded on a caste basis, will be represented in the group of potential leaders?
I know that the hon. Gentleman wants a reasonable time in which to conclude the debate. I hope, however, that he will be able to set out the relationship between the British Council and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, particularly in relation to Kenya's involvement in the work shadowing. I understand also that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, with the global opportunities fund and a programme called "Engaging with the Islamic world" is also active in Kenya. I wonder how those two things interact, particularly as one of the main outcomes there is also expected to be an increase in the representation of women.
There are certain institutions, such as Radio 4 and the BBC World Service, that we are all very proud of. I think that the British Council falls into that category, and I am very supportive of its work.
3.22 pm
Mr. Mark Simmonds (Boston and Skegness) (Con): I add my congratulations to the hon. Member for Crosby (Mrs. Curtis-Thomas) on securing this important debate following her interesting visit to Zambia with the British Council's women in politics and leadership project. The British Council is at the forefront of furthering cultural relations between Britain and the rest of the world, and the Conservative party is extremely supportive of its work. However, I am a little disappointed that the Foreign Office does not share our enthusiasm for the British Council—it has been unable to send at least one of its six Ministers. I mean no disrespect to the hon. Gentleman who will reply on behalf of the Government today, who I know will do so extremely ably and articulately.
The British Council's main raison d'être is to gain recognition abroad for the UK's values, ideas and achievements, and to build lasting, mutually beneficial relationships between the United Kingdom and other countries. It is of key importance to British foreign policy. Specifically, the British Council's role in Africa is vital. I want to record our thanks to all of those who work for the British Council in Africa, who are doing excellent work.
We all know that Africa poses great challenges. It is the only continent that has regressed economically in the past 20 years. It is also a continent of vast wealth and opportunity. Because of its reputation of trust and integrity and the long-term programmes of assistance, the British Council is in an unparalleled position to help Africans to meet the challenges that they face.
Historically, one of the greatest problems with African Governments has been the lack of democratic accountability, and the lack of institutions to facilitate a pluralistic civil society. Sadly, that has led to chronic political instability in many African countries. Corrupt and inept leadership, combined with a history of human rights abuses, inter-ethnic rivalries and, more recently and very sadly, the explosion of HIV/AIDS, have left many parts of Africa lagging behind the rest of the world
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in building markets, trading and improving the macro and microeconomic well-being of its citizens. That can be seen in comparison to extraordinary economic growth in China and India, which is lifting millions of people out of poverty.
Sadly, Africa has generally stagnated. I shall give one example to illustrate that. Forty years ago, Nigeria was much wealthier than South Korea, with approximately the same population. Whereas Nigeria's oil wealth was squandered, South Korea invested in educating people and targeted key export industries in the west. It is now a leading export nation and has a per capita income 20 times higher than Nigeria. While both countries have found it difficult to make the transition to full democracy, South Korea did not suffer from the same corrupt military leadership, and lessons must be learned from that.
I shall not give a detailed analysis of the multi-faceted problems that exist across Africa, but the problems can be summarised into three key areas: the lack of political stability in Africa and subsequent conflicts; the poor education of citizens; and the lack of sustainable development. The British Council's work in facilitating democratic governance, fostering development and providing education addresses those areas. It is an excellent programme working in partnership with the African-led New Partnership for Africa's Development. I agree with the hon. Member for Crosby wholeheartedly that we should be listening and not lecturing, and the British Council scheme is a starting point for that. NEPAD also shows the real desire of Africans to work with other formal and voluntary international bodies and NGOs to move forward.
The British Council's work, together with its invaluable partnerships with the Commonwealth, the World Bank and countless other bodies, means that it is uniquely placed to build support for the reform needed to ensure that African countries and Governments become more accountable to their public. Without a strong and vibrant civil society, it is exceptionally difficult to hold a Government to account and to ensure that they act in the public interest rather than in the interests of the ruling ethnicity, clique or family. In contrast, a robust civil society can deliver honest and effective rule, which all African people deserve.
The British Council works on that directly and must be supported in its challenge. For example, it set up the leadership programme that we heard about earlier—the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake) made some good points that I hope that the Minister's stand-in will answer in his summing-up. The council has given civil society leaders in Africa the chance to learn from accumulated experience in the UK, where civil society has grown over the centuries. It has also been instrumental in transferring working knowledge to African parliamentarians through the programmes that we heard about earlier.
That excellent initiative was supported by the Conservative party, particularly by my hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs. Gillan). She took part in the programme and hosted a female Kenyan Member of Parliament who visited the UK. The differences between female British and female African MPs were highlighted by the hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Joan Ruddock). Interestingly enough, however, my hon. Friend found that there were
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similarities between the problems facing female MPs: how to reach out to the electorate; how to balance family life with a demanding political career; and, slightly worryingly, how to deal with male colleagues.
The council has played a vital role in international development for 40 years and is currently working in 50 developing countries. We are pleased that this programme is part of a wider strategy to promote democratic government, education and trade. Sustainable development must ultimately be based on free market principles to ensure that the benefits of economic activity accrue to those who invest their time in enterprise and work, not to those who happen to be in power. People must have secure property rights but, without sustainable economic development, Africa's future will remain bleak. Countries should follow Botswana's example and attract foreign investment to grow their economies and to generate revenues to expand public services, as was rightly alluded to by the hon. Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Mr. Wyatt).
I agree with the British Council that business will invest only if there is a viable operating environment and the skills in the local market to operate those businesses. Paramount among those skills are communications skills. The teaching of English is key. English is now the language of international commerce and business, and the council is a world leader in teaching English. Excellent English not only helps Africans to communicate with foreign businesses but enables them to join the international community of fellow English speakers and to benefit from courses and degrees taught in English. I understand that last year the British Council delivered more than 1 million hours of teaching, and set and marked 1.15 million UK exams. We should all applaud that extraordinary achievement. The council has reached more than 10 million people through teaching centres, libraries and information services, to which other hon. Members have referred.
Before I finish, I shall ask a few specific questions that I would like the hon. Member for Eastwood (Mr. Murphy), who will speak on behalf of the Government, to address, if he can, this afternoon. First, what assessment has been made of the value for money that the Government receive for the £180 million grant in aid that the Foreign Office gives the British Council? How are the outputs measured? That point was raised by the council in the evidence that it gave to the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs in detailing its "Strategy 2010: Our Vision for the Future".
Secondly, the council has expressed serious concerns that grant in aid of £204 million for 2007–08 may have an adverse impact on its good work in Africa and throughout the world. What assurances can the Government provide that there will be no diminution in the service provided by the council?
Thirdly, the council operates out of 280 premises in 110 countries. The 2004 spending review stated that efficiency savings would be realised by
"reductions in the size of their overseas estates".
I hope that we shall receive an assurance that such reductions will not lead to the sort of shambolic sell-off of good-quality property that the Foreign Office has instigated across the world and particularly in New York.
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The fourth point was alluded to by the hon. Member for Bristol, West (Valerie Davey). What links does the British Council have with the further education sector in this country, and what are the Government doing to facilitate vocational learning and training throughout Africa? I am referring to Africans being educated in the UK and in their respective African countries.
Finally, is it right that the British Council operates in Zimbabwe, given the terrible abuses of both white and black people that are going on there? Do we not need to consider very carefully whether that sends the wrong signals to the currently appalling Mugabe regime?
In conclusion, the British Council is a unique institution because of its experience, reach, professionalism and integrity, but above all because it is practical.
3.32 pm
Mr. Jim Murphy (Eastwood) (Lab): I am delighted to have the opportunity to respond to the debate. First, I apologise on behalf of the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Sunderland, South (Mr. Mullin), who cannot be here today. It is fairly reasonable and understandable to offer hon. Members such an apology in this discussion of the British Council's work in Africa, because he is in Africa—in Kenya. I am delivering this response as the Foreign and Commonwealth Office Whip. I am sure that my hon. Friend will respond to any questions that I cannot answer in the short time available.
As I said, I am pleased to have the opportunity to respond to the debate. It is not a regular occurrence for a Whip to be heard on any issue, but if there is one important issue that we should be heard on, it is the work of the British Council, its support of the Government's work in Africa and the Government's work to support the Commission for Africa. We are providing whatever moral and political support we can to NEPAD to help African leaders who are looking for African solutions to problems that are, unfortunately, far too common in Africa.
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Crosby (Mrs. Curtis-Thomas) not only on securing the debate but on its fortuitous timing, which she mentioned. She spoke with her usual passion and knowledge. Her anecdote about the BBC reminded me of the time when I travelled to the Negev desert with Bedouin tribesmen and we had—I am sure that they are not listening, so I can say this—a cup of what was possibly the worst coffee that I have ever tasted. I also received what was possibly the best hospitality that I have ever received, listening to the BBC World Service in the Negev desert.
My hon. Friend paid great compliments to the British Council on its work in Africa. I am pleased that she did so because she was correct. Not only is the British Council doing excellent work on that continent, but the British Government, as she said, have prioritised the issue of Africa for our presidency of both the G8 and the EU. The Government believe it to be crucial that the British Council fits within that work and that we work in a complementary manner to deliver the Foreign and
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Commonwealth Office's priorities, but that the British Council should have a degree of operational independence—something that is acknowledged to be essential throughout Parliament and across the parties.
We also had the good fortune to hear from my hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Mr. Wyatt), who is chairman of the all-party group on the British Council. He was to correct to identify the power of technology, which the British Council has identified as a key part of its 2005 strategy. He is probably the only hon. Member who has visited more countries in Africa than the Minister with responsibility for Africa; in that respect he is ahead of anyone else in Parliament.
We also heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol, West (Valerie Davey) about her work in the women in politics programme in Tanzania, her teacher training in Kutoke and her experience of having met a former pupil. On arriving in Parliament, I had a similar experience with my right hon. Friend the Member for Dumbarton (Mr. McFall), when I reminded him that he was my teacher in secondary school in Glasgow. He is still with us in the House. My hon. Friend the Member for Bristol, West will be aware that Tanzania is the greatest recipient of UK development assistance in Africa, and she also raised a number of other points that I will be happy to discuss with her. I am delighted that we also heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Joan Ruddock) about her work in the women in politics programme in Zambia.
We have spoken about the fascinating and important work that the British Council carries out in educating populations and individuals around the world, but it is clear from listening to hon. Members' impassioned speeches that it is also informing politicians and parliamentarians in this country in a way that perhaps was not initially envisaged. It is not only informing but influencing political values and philosophy on the Labour Benches, as well as on other Benches.
Hon. Members highlighted the issue of water, either for building bricks or for water-treatment plants. It is interesting to note that, on average, African women and girls spend three hours every day fetching and carrying water. That prevents a number of young girls from going to school, which is an additional problem.
3.37 pm
Sitting suspended for a Division in the House.
4.1 pm
On resuming—
Mr. Murphy : I was about to compliment my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough (Helen Jackson) on her speech, but she has not yet returned to the Chamber.
A number of questions were asked about Zambia and the heavily indebted poor countries—HIPC conditions, and about achieving the completion point in HIPC. It is expected that Zambia will reach completion in early 2005. That will reduce the debt by two thirds, from $4 billion to $1.5 billion. Although that still leaves a large debt, it is a remarkable reduction.
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The hon. Members for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake) and for Boston and Skegness (Mr. Simmonds) asked a number of questions. I shall answer as many as time allows. They asked about fluctuation contracts, which are primarily a matter for the British Council; such contracts operate independently of Government, and there is no reason for increasing grant aid to cover them. In respect of the 1,500 scholarships, people from 19 countries will be selected in conjunction with their African partners to ensure a proper profile mix of age, gender and region.
I was asked about Kenya and about the Islamic world. We operate with the advice, support and expertise of the British Council to engage with the Islamic world programmes. We work with a joint public policy board in Kenya, and we try to co-operate with and complement the work of the British Council there.
The hon. Member for Boston and Skegness was right to say that the British Council still operates in Zimbabwe. I do not suggest that he advocates that it should not do so, but for the purposes of consistency I should say that the British Council operated in South Africa during the horrible apartheid regime. The then Conservative Government supported the continuation of that work and the council's engagement with civil and civic society. The British Council was not contaminated with the ethos or the policies of the South African Government, and nor is it contaminated now by those of Zimbabwe.
Mrs. Curtis-Thomas : Does my hon. Friend agree that it is a great tribute to the British Council that it should stay in countries with such huge problems, as many NGOs simply pull out? The indigenous populations feel abandoned. Is it not an exceptionally good thing that the British Council should stay in such countries?
Mr. Murphy : Absolutely. I pay tribute to the many thousands of staff throughout the world who work for the British Council; some of them have been mentioned, but time does not allow us to hear of the work of them all. The courage of the British Council staff who carry out such work in Zimbabwe should be put on record.
The hon. Member for Boston and Skegness asked about value for money. A Foreign Office questionnaire is sent to all FCO posts asking about the British Council's contribution to the FCO's objectives. I am
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delighted to say that about 90 per cent. of the responses compliment the British Council on its work and believe that it offers excellent value for money.
I am pleased to join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to the work of the British Council. It works with us in partnership to deliver a strong, democratic and prosperous Africa. We still have much to achieve in that respect, as we have heard eloquently pointed out today. The council recently launched its forward-looking "Strategy 2010", which strives to reflect the UK's international priorities. We welcome the "Strategy 2010" programme. It will make the council more flexible and efficient and equip it to respond quickly to changing public diplomacy needs. A key feature of the restructuring is the development of regional groups, as successfully piloted in the southern Africa region.
The Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the British Council face similar issues with regard to security. Both were pleased that the requests for a full bid of £4 million and a further £6 million as part of the 2004 spending review were granted so that improvements could be undertaken to ensure heightened security.
There is not ample opportunity in this vote-interrupted debate to pay accurate or appropriate tribute to the work of the British Council. That lack of opportunity is also due to the number of hon. Members who chose to attend the debate and to pay their own tributes to its work. However, on behalf of the UK Government and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, I would like to put on record our thanks to the leadership of the British Council and our praise for the staff members who operate in countries throughout the world, particularly in Africa. They rightly raise the profile of the United Kingdom and challenge some of the perceptions about it, but more importantly, they provide skills, information, training and personal and character development for many individuals throughout the world. We have heard examples of that related to Africa.
In a time of heightened cynicism about politics and politicians, anyone listening to the passion with which hon. Members spoke today would know that politics can be a force for good. The British Council plays an important part in informing politicians to argue for change, as has happened today, and its work is a crucial part of the priorities of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. I thank the leadership and the staff for the sterling work that they do on our behalf.
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