---

Royal Irish Regiment

7. David Burnside (South Antrim) (UUP): Whether, in the event of security normalisation in Northern Ireland, the three home battalions of the Royal Irish Regiment will be in addition to garrison strength in the Province. [193210]

The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr. Adam Ingram): The Government have not come to a final conclusion about the future of the three home service
 
25 Oct 2004 : Column 1137
 
battalions of the Royal Irish Regiment, or about the composition of the long-term garrison in Northern Ireland.

David Burnside: That is exactly the worrying answer that I expected from the Minister. He should be aware that since Her Majesty's Government assumed internal security powers from the Government and Parliament of Northern Ireland in March 1972, at no time has there not been a locally recruited, armed back-up to the civil power—first, it was the Ulster Defence Regiment, which was succeeded by the home battalions of the Royal Irish Regiment. His answer is very worrying. I wish that he would give the House the commitment that, in peace, to be prepared to stop a terrorist threat we must continue to have the three locally recruited home battalions of the Royal Irish Regiment.

Mr. Ingram: The hon. Gentleman's question includes the words

"in the event of security normalisation in Northern Ireland".

I assume that he is in favour of normalisation. Normalisation means a completely different type of defence presence in Northern Ireland, but no decisions have been taken on what that will be, the process or the time scale. All that is subject to the intense discussions to which I assume he is party, but I had hoped that he wanted a normalised Northern Ireland, not the Northern Ireland that we have had for the past 30 years.

Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock) (Lab): In the event of normalisation, will there be scope for the full-time home service battalion soldiers to serve overseas?

Mr. Ingram: The answer is yes. Those soldiers can join the Regular Army. I recently visited the Royal Irish, who are based at Fort George in Inverness. It was interesting that they were very keen to be posted either to Iraq or to Afghanistan. They are keen to deliver the capability that they have. I think that that works across the whole of the British Army. People want to serve where we have a mission that is delivering on all the aspects that the House wants to see, including a stable and peaceful Iraq. In terms of those who wish to serve in the Regular Army, if they have other commitments, they can of course transfer to the regulars.

Headquarters Land Command

8. Mr. Robert Key (Salisbury) (Con): What progress has been made on the study to relocate HQ Land Command from Wilton. [193211]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. Ivor Caplin): Work to examine the scope for rationalisation and co-location of Headquarters Land Command and the Headquarters Adjutant General is in its early stages. A number of potential co-location sites are being assessed and, until that work is complete, I cannot say what the preferred site option will be.

Mr. Key: The Army and the civilian work force who support them in my constituency are an integral part of our community; they are always welcome and we want
 
25 Oct 2004 : Column 1138
 
them to stay. Therefore, will the Minister, when he considers the various options for relocation, bear it in mind that the most obvious location, which would be warmly welcomed by everyone to whom I have spoken in the area, is the new development at Solstice park, which would be tailor-made for the major garrison headquarters of the British Army? He should not be blown off course by anyone from the Treasury, or anyone else, but listen to what local people as well as what the military, I believe, want.

Mr. Caplin: The hon. Gentleman has made an impassioned plea for a conclusion, but it will be mid next year before we come to a short list of possible sites. However, I am conscious that that work is likely to cause some anxiety, particularly among civilian staff. For that reason, we will undertake to keep them informed at all stages.

Paul Flynn (Newport, West) (Lab): Is the Minister concerned by the threats made this weekend by farmers in the Salisbury plain and Wilton area to withdraw the use of their land from the military? Does he realise that the Ministry of Defence pays £2 million a year for the occasional use of farming land, and allows the rent of military land on very favourable terms to farmers in Salisbury? What can we do to protect our Army, and the continuation of its services, from the grasping demands of unpatriotic farmers?

Mr. Caplin: My hon. Friend will be aware that training on private land is, of course, a matter for private landowners, and we are grateful for the long-standing relationship that we have with farmers and landowners in the Salisbury area. I do not think that the situation is quite as one newspaper yesterday made it out to be.

Iraq

10. David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): If he will make a statement on the security situation in Iraq. [193213]

The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. Geoffrey Hoon): The security situation in certain parts of Iraq remains difficult. We continue to work with the Iraqi Interim Government to develop the capacity of the Iraqi security forces, and to ensure that the majority of the population is able to live in a comparatively secure environment.

David Taylor: Following the appalling murders of Ken Bigley and other kidnapped foreign hostages and the indiscriminate slaughter of thousands of ordinary Iraqis, such as the 50 national guardsmen found near Baquba at the weekend, can the Secretary of State say what assistance is being given to the Iraqi security services? What does he say to those who opposed allied military intervention in March of last year, not least because the honourable goal of getting rid of a savage tyrant far too often leads to continuing chaos, bloody terrorism and incipient civil war?
 
25 Oct 2004 : Column 1139
 

Mr. Hoon: I will make it clear to those who, from their own point of view, felt unable to support the military conflict that it is nevertheless important today that everyone, whatever their views at the time of the conflict, supports the efforts being made by the international community and multinational forces, and specifically those efforts to assist in the training of the Iraqi security forces.

There are today some 90,000 trained police officers in Iraq, 39,000 members of the national guard, a new Iraqi army of around 9,000—rising soon, we hope, to 27,000—and 16,000 border guards, as well as a number of other security organisations. I am often asked what the Government's exit strategy is; that is the Government's exit strategy, as I made clear last week. It is training Iraqi security forces to take on the responsibility, rightly, for the security of their own country.

Mr. Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con): The Secretary of State is talking about an exit strategy for the current situation, but he will be only too aware that coming down the road after the elections—if they are successfully concluded—is the issue of the resolution of the Kurdish question in Iraq. Can he reassure the House that the Ministry of Defence is engaging in contingency planning in the event that the Kurdish question results in civil war in Iraq?

Mr. Hoon: I simply do not accept that to be an issue. I have met, in very recent times, the Vice-President, who is Kurdish, and the deputy Defence Minister, who is also Kurdish. Both of them are absolutely committed to the idea of a united Iraq that is restored to the international community and where all its people can live in freedom and security.

David Winnick (Walsall, North) (Lab): Recognising that the terrorists certainly do not want free and democratic elections to take place in January—hence their activities and indiscriminate slaughter of Iraqi people—does my right hon. Friend agree that it is the responsibility of the House to monitor what is happening there and to review the situation at every opportunity? That is the job of Members of Parliament, and that is what the electorate expect from us.

Mr. Hoon: I entirely accept that. My hon. Friend has been forthright in his condemnation of the regime of Saddam Hussein over many years, as well as giving great support to British forces engaged in the overthrow of that tyrant. I certainly agree with him that it is important that we debate those issues.

Army Training

11. Mr. Michael Jabez Foster (Hastings and Rye) (Lab): If he will make a statement on procedures for training of Army recruits. [193214]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. Ivor Caplin): Training of recruits within the Army is conducted by the Army Training and Recruiting Agency, in conjunction with other service training agencies. ATRA is organised into 10 operating divisions. Most of those divisions comprise a number of specialist schools devoted to a specific area of training.
 
25 Oct 2004 : Column 1140
 

Phase 1 training lasts for 12 weeks and follows a syllabus called "Common Military Syllabus (Recruits)". The course prepares recruits for Army life and for their professional or trade training, known as phase 2 training.

Mr. Foster: I thank my hon. Friend for that detailed reply. However, in the light of the conviction of Leslie Skinner last week for offences carried out at Deepcut—a man who had already been the subject of a court martial in Northern Ireland—is it not time that the Army protected young soldiers from such people and, in particular, waived Crown immunity from the criminal records procedures?

Mr. Caplin: I cannot comment on my hon. Friend's final point, but I shall examine what he said. The decision to post Leslie Skinner to Deepcut was taken on 29 January 1997. It was a bad decision. I assure the House that such a decision would not be taken today by the Army or any other part of the armed forces.

Mr. Nicholas Soames (Mid-Sussex) (Con): How can the Minister explain a system to the House of Commons that allows Territorial Army soldiers to deploy to a theatre of war without adequate weapons training? Is it not wholly unacceptable and likely to be profoundly dangerous? What steps is he taking to ensure that that is urgently rectified and that such astonishing neglect of duty cannot happen again? Which high official or senior serviceman, regardless of rank, is to be held to account for such a deplorable and unforgivable failure?

Mr. Caplin: First, I pay tribute to all our reserve forces, wherever they are serving. They have done a fantastic job. We owe a debt of gratitude to their families and employers. The hon. Gentleman is well aware that all mobilised reserves undergo pre-deployment training. That training, which is constantly under review, is carried out in accordance with extant directives issued by the chain of command. We will maintain that situation and continue to look at those issues.

Mrs. Joan Humble (Blackpool, North and Fleetwood) (Lab): While recognising that there is much good training in the Army, will my hon. Friend look at what happens when, sadly, the training goes wrong—not just for new recruits, but for recruits such as my constituent Derek McGregor, who enjoyed three or four years in the Army before, sadly, dying in Army barracks? Will he consider the pleas of their parents and have a proper investigation into what happens when the training goes so badly wrong?

Mr. Caplin: My hon. Friend will be aware of the Government's position on inquiries, which was set out in the House by my right hon. Friend the Minister of State on 24 May. Since then, however, we have signed the memorandum of understanding with the adult learning inspectorate on 7 July. The regime is tough. It inspects our recruiting and training objectives, and all its reports will be published.
 
25 Oct 2004 : Column 1141
 

---