---

 
26 Oct 2004 : Column 1273
 

House of Commons

Tuesday 26 October 2004

The House met at half-past Eleven o'clock

PRAYERS

[Mr. Speaker in the Chair]

Oral Answers to Questions

SCOTLAND

The Secretary of State was asked—

Energy Policy

1. Mr. Bill Tynan (Hamilton, South) (Lab): What discussions he has had with colleagues in the Department of Trade and Industry on ensuring that there is an integrated energy policy in Scotland. [192843]

The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Alistair Darling): Ministers and officials from the Scotland Office and from the Scottish Executive are in regular contact with the DTI in relation to a range of energy-related matters.

Mr. Tynan: I thank my right hon. Friend for his response and congratulate the Government on their commitment to renewable energy and to the Kyoto protocol. However, renewable energy alone will not solve the problem of security of supply or reduce carbon dioxide emissions. The next time that my right hon. Friend has discussions with the DTI will he consider our dependence on imported gas, and will he pursue an integrated energy policy that includes nuclear power and clean coal technology to safeguard Scotland's future needs?

Mr. Darling: My hon. Friend is quite right. It is important that we have a wide range of electricity supplies. The Government and the Scottish Executive have very demanding targets for increasing the amount of electricity generated from renewable sources, and it is a pity that the Conservatives in Scotland have set their face against renewable energy. It is important to keep our options open on nuclear energy. Both major nuclear power stations in Scotland still have some life left in them—Torness will, I think, be operational until the early 2020s—and that is something that we need to look at. It is important that we have security of supply, not just in Scotland but throughout the United Kingdom. My hon. Friend is right that we need to press ahead with technologies such as cleaner coal and so on so that we can improve the environment as well as making sure that we have a good electricity supply.
 
26 Oct 2004 : Column 1274
 

Mr. Alex Salmond (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): The hon. Member for Hamilton, South (Mr. Tynan) is well informed on many issues, but not necessarily this one, and most of us would not wish to follow him and the Secretary of State down the nuclear route. We would like to develop the vast array of energy resources in Scotland, but how on earth can we do so when there are proposals to charge £20 per kilowatt to connect to the grid in the north of Scotland and £14 per kilowatt in central Scotland, but for a subsidy of £10 per kilowatt in London? I know that the Secretary of State is concerned about the issue, but what is he doing about that discrimination against Scotland?

Mr. Darling: As I have said before, it is important that generators in Scotland can sell electricity, not just in Scotland but throughout the United Kingdom. Typically, the hon. Gentleman conveniently overlooks the fact that the proposals will remove interconnector charges for exporting electricity to England, and the charges suggested by the national grid are substantially less than they are at present. I have told the hon. Gentleman before that it is important that we encourage electricity generation in Scotland. The offshore regime that he complained about last time has not been settled at all, and it is entirely characteristic that he should make overblown and unfounded claims about offshore electricity, instead of concentrating on what is in fact the case and what is good for Scottish generators.

Anne Picking (East Lothian) (Lab): Does my right hon. Friend agree that although security of supply is paramount so is security of jobs? In my constituency, British Energy in Torness and Scottish Power in Cockenzie are good employers that have introduced apprentice schemes, and those jobs should be safe.

Mr. Darling: My hon. Friend is right. Scottish Power is a good employer and has a good reputation, not just in Scotland but throughout the United Kingdom and many other parts of the world to which it supplies electricity. She is rightly concerned about jobs but, as I said a few moments ago, Torness power station has a considerable time to run and a decision has not been made about its future. It is important, however, that we look at the question of energy in a rational and measured way and make sure that we have security of supply. It is essential that we increase the amount of electricity generated from renewable sources and that we guarantee continuity of supply. It is therefore Government policy to approach nuclear policy with an open mind and in a rational way.

Mr. Peter Duncan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (Con): Given the importance of continuity of supply, does the Secretary of State endorse the rush by the Scottish Executive towards wind energy at the expense of other options, specifically new nuclear build? Does he not think it rather inappropriate that the Scottish Executive have the first and last say on the largest wind farm developments? The larger the development, the more severe the impact on the local area and the further removed local people are from the decision. Should rural Scotland not have more of a say in whether tens of dozens of enormous wind turbines are erected on the landscape?
 
26 Oct 2004 : Column 1275
 

Mr. Darling: The Scottish Executive are the planning authority, so it is not surprising that they have some sort of say. I know that the hon. Gentleman is not terribly keen on devolution, but that is a consequence of it. With regard to renewables, wanting to increase the amount of electricity generated from renewables over a 20-year period is hardly a rush. Most people are understandably concerned about the environmental impact of carbon emissions and want to do something about them. It is a great pity that the Conservatives have shown themselves yet again to have no idea how to deal with the problem in the future. They are against renewable energy and against the siting of renewable energy generation— in other words, they are turning their heads against solutions for improving the environment in Scotland, and it is not surprising that they have nothing to say about what is good for Scotland in the future.

Jobcentre Plus (Lanarkshire)

2. Mr. Tom Clarke (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab): What discussions he has had with the Department of Work and Pensions about plans for the future of Jobcentre Plus in Lanarkshire. [192844]

4. Mr. Frank Roy (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab): What plans he has to visit Jobcentres in Lanarkshire in the near future. [192846]

The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Alistair Darling): I talk to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions about a range of issues, including jobcentre provision. I have no immediate plans to visit the jobcentres in Lanarkshire, though.

Mr. Clarke: May I thank my right hon. Friend for his interest and encourage him to ensure that the consultations that are taking place include not just Lanarkshire Members of Parliament, but people genuinely seeking employment and people on low incomes, whose travel costs will increase considerably if the current proposals are unchanged?

Mr. Darling: As my right hon. Friend will know for understandable reasons, I take a close interest in what is happening in the Department for Work and Pensions and in relation to the jobcentres. It is important for people to understand that what we are trying to do is completely change the way in which people are dealt with in jobcentres. There is more money going into the estate, there are better offices, much more pleasant surroundings and far better advice, and it is bringing together the benefit system and the employment system. None the less, my right hon. Friend is right to make the point that we must make sure that the offices are in the right places and that they are convenient for people. I know that he and our hon. Friend the Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Mr. Roy) have a meeting with our right hon. Friend the Minister for Work at the Department for Work and Pensions on 10 November. She has made it clear to me that she will listen with an open mind to what my right hon. and hon. Friends have to say about the matter, to make sure that we get the service to which people are entitled.
 
26 Oct 2004 : Column 1276
 

Mr. Roy: May I tell my right hon. Friend that the jobcentre roll-out programme in Lanarkshire has been renamed the jobcentre wipeout plan? Does he agree that in an area such as Motherwell and Wishaw, with nearly double the average rate of unemployment in the rest of the United Kingdom, it is absurd to close both the social security office and the jobcentre in Wishaw, and even more absurd to think that the work currently undertaken by five offices can be done by a single office in Motherwell?

Mr. Darling: That is a point that my hon. Friend will no doubt put to our right hon. Friend the Minister for Work. In my experience at the Department of Social Security, there were many things that it had done for many, many years that were not being done particularly efficiently and not in the best way to suit members of the public, who after all are the most important people in this context. Of course my hon. Friend is right to raise specific concerns about the siting of offices, but the general changes that we are making are creating a far better service for the public than we have had in the past. However, he is right to say that we must ensure that the offices are in the right place and that people are not left without services where that is appropriate.

John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): Is it not the case that the concerns expressed by hon. Members regarding Jobcentre Plus offices in Lanarkshire also apply to many other areas of Scotland? Will the Secretary of State join me in recognising the excellent quality of work and service given by the office in Wick? Will he also explain to those employed there why their jobs are under threat, in an area that is already economically depressed and where, because of the distances involved, that threat will make it more difficult to deliver a good service to their clients?

Mr. Darling: As I have said over the past few minutes, it is important that the offices are located in the right places so that the public can get the service to which they are entitled. However, we should not lose sight of the general point that I was making that we are trying to provide much better conditions for the staff and for the public, and provide a far better service than we have been able to do in the past. As I said, seven or eight years ago the way in which the DSS was run, because of the lack of computerisation and the lack of investment, meant that it was not offering the sort of service that it should. All hon. Members who have seen the Jobcentre Plus offices that have opened will know that they are qualitatively better than anything that existed in the past. That is not to say that the Department for Work and Pensions will not look carefully at where the offices are. If the hon. Gentleman has a specific concern about his constituency, he should speak to my right hon. Friend the Minister for Work, who I am sure will be delighted to hear from him.

Rosemary McKenna (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): Is it not true that most people would prefer to have the decent buildings that I am fortunate enough to have in Cumbernauld, which makes the jobcentre a pleasant place for people to go, with good services? The real concern is the people who are unable to access such a facility. Does my right hon. Friend accept that when
 
26 Oct 2004 : Column 1277
 
I go with my other Lanarkshire colleagues to meet the Minister, we will put the case that jobcentres should provide good, accessible services for people who cannot travel miles to other areas?

Mr. Darling: My hon. Friend makes a good point and is right to say that the Jobcentre Plus offices are much better than anything that came before them. Anyone who has been into a traditional DSS Benefits Agency office will realise that we should not ask people to go to such places in this day and age. She is also right to say that many people want to get in touch with the DWP on the phone or electronically, which was not possible in the past.

Some people need to go to offices, however, and sometimes it is not possible for them to travel long distances. That is why it is right for my right hon. and hon. Friends to speak to the Minister for Work. I am sure that she will be delighted to discuss those matters, because it is important that we get the provision of those offices right.

---