---

Peace Process

3. Ann Winterton (Congleton) (Con): If he will make a statement on the peace process. [193192]

5. Mr. Bill Tynan (Hamilton, South) (Lab): What further discussion is taking place in Northern Ireland with a view to re-establishing the Northern Ireland Assembly. [193194]

The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Paul Murphy): We made good progress on the key points at the intensive negotiations at Leeds castle, and talks with the Northern Ireland parties and the Irish Government continue. As the Prime Minister and the Taoiseach have made clear, it is now very important that they reach a conclusion.

Ann Winterton: Surely the peace process cannot progress unless there is full and verifiable handing over of weapons by Sinn Fein-IRA, sooner rather than later. The token surrender of weapons to date is simply not good enough.

Mr. Murphy: The Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley, South (Mr. Pearson), made it clear that decommissioning is an essential part of any deal that has to be made to restore the institutions. Decommissioning is also an essential part of the Good Friday agreement in itself. The exchanges over the Floor of the House a few moments ago made it clear where the Government stand.

Mr. Tynan: May I encourage my right hon. Friend to continue the peace process, because as far as finding a solution to the problems that exist in Northern Ireland is concerned, re-establishing the Assembly is vital to the people of the Province? What recent discussion has he had with the new Irish Foreign Minister? If we are to continue co-operation and maintain momentum for the peace process, we must ensure that the relationship that existed previously with Brian Cowen continues with Dermot Ahern.

Mr. Murphy: I agree with my hon. Friend that success is important in the Northern Ireland peace process. We need good relations with the Irish Government, and I believe that they have never been better. I pay tribute to the work of Brian Cowen, who was Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs and is now Finance Minister. He played a significant role in the process and we wish him well in his new job. We also welcome Dermot Ahern, who will prove an able successor. My hon. Friend is right to bring
 
27 Oct 2004 : Column 1419
 
the vital significance of the British and Irish Governments' working together to the attention of the House.

Mr. Michael Mates (East Hampshire) (Con): While everyone agrees on the necessity of full decommissioning, the argument continues about how it can be brought about in a way that will satisfy the public, and in particular the citizens of Northern Ireland. In view of the fact that the Sinn Fein leader has accused the Government of trying to play politics with that important issue, for the avoidance of doubt, will the Secretary of State tell us the Government's minimum requirements for visibility in decommissioning?

Mr. Murphy: I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that the issue is important—it cannot be avoided and it is a vital part of the Good Friday agreement. Discussions are taking place between the parties and the Government, and I cannot go into the detail of how we will deal with the issue, because that would affect the talks. Unless there is sufficient transparency to induce confidence among people in Northern Ireland, whether they are Unionist or whether they are nationalist, we will not make progress. That lack of confidence was one reason why we did not make progress back in November 2003. He may rest assured that his general points about transparency and confidence are at the heart of the discussions.

Mr. John Hume (Foyle) (SDLP): Does the Secretary of State agree that, for the first time in history, the people of Ireland as a whole—north and south—voted on how they want to live together by overwhelmingly endorsing the Good Friday agreement? It is therefore every true democrat's duty to implement the will of the people, which means implementing all aspects of the agreement. Does he agree that any renegotiation of any aspect of that agreement would be undemocratic?

Mr. Murphy: My hon. Friend is right to emphasise the importance of the agreement to Northern Ireland's future. He knows full well that the principles that underlie the agreement cannot be altered in any accommodation that we may arrive at. The details on power sharing, the north-south arrangements and the principle of consent are all vital to any future accommodation.

My hon. Friend knows that the operation of the agreement's institutions has been reviewed and we have an opportunity to reflect on how we can change it for the better. Even when we examine the operation of the agreement, any changes must be made by agreement. However, he is right to point out that the fundamental principles of the Good Friday agreement must lie at the heart of any future accommodation.

Mr. Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): Does the Secretary of State agree on the need to ensure greater confidence in both communities in Northern Ireland, and particularly the Unionist community, before the discussions reach fulfilment and the Assembly returns?
 
27 Oct 2004 : Column 1420
 

Mr. Murphy: The hon. Gentleman is right—at the end of the day, proper trust and confidence must be developed. He knows as well as me the reason why the Assembly has been suspended for more than two years, and it is nearly one year since there were elections in Northern Ireland for that Assembly. A lack of trust and confidence lies behind that situation. Any discussions must deal with the need to increase confidence, which is his point.

Mr. Seamus Mallon (Newry and Armagh) (SDLP): The Secretary of State knows that policing is central to creating peace in Northern Ireland. I am sure that he has noted some ill-judged statements about policing that have been made recently. Will he ensure that the opinion of the oversight commissioner—an independent, impartial oversight commissioner—that Patten is being fully implemented with competence is not overlooked? Will he consider extending the oversight commissioner's tenure of office so that the public in Northern Ireland can base their opinion on his professional judgment and not on the party political propaganda or self-serving interests of others?

Mr. Murphy: My hon. Friend is right to remind the House about the work of the oversight commissioner. It is a vital part of our progress on policing in Northern Ireland. I greatly support what he has done to date and I shall reflect seriously on my hon. Friend's point about his term of office.

Lembit Öpik (Montgomeryshire) (LD): Do not demands for a statement that the war is over fundamentally miss the point? Although it sounds less dramatic, should not our goal be to ensure that all groups abide by paragraph 13 of the joint declaration, which means full and permanent cessation of all military activities? Does the Secretary of State therefore agree that it would be better for politicians from all parties to focus on implementing a measurable outcome in an existing declaration rather than fixating on a politically charged but practically undefined demand?

Mr. Murphy: As I have said several times this morning, the issue is confidence. The only way in which we can restore the institutions and fulfil what we have to fulfil in the Good Friday agreement is by ensuring sufficient confidence in all parts of the community, Unionist and nationalist, in Northern Ireland so that politicians can work together in an Executive and an Assembly and the important matters of paramilitary activity and decommissioning can be addressed. How we do that is the key. Unless people are confident that such progress is to be made, we cannot achieve our goals. However, I am reasonably optimistic that there is a will among parties in Northern Ireland to do a deal and restore those institutions.

Mr. Nigel Dodds (Belfast, North) (DUP): On Monday, the vice-chairman of the Northern Ireland Policing Board, Denis Bradley, made grossly irresponsible comments about attacks on police and district policing partnership members. He also made offensive political remarks that went way beyond his
 
27 Oct 2004 : Column 1421
 
role and remit. Should not he now resign? If he does not, should not the Secretary of State remove him from an office for which he is clearly unfit?

Mr. Murphy: Obviously, Mr. Bradley expressed personal opinions, to which he is entitled. However, it is important to point out that he has been the subject of much intimidation in past months and that he is sincere in wanting progress on policing. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman agrees with that. I know that he can address the comments about the political situation more than adequately through debate. I understand what he says but I believe that everyone would agree with Mr. Bradley's emphasis on the fact that progress in the peace process was important for progress in policing.

Mr. David Lidington (Aylesbury) (Con): Will the Secretary of State confirm that steps towards so-called normalisation, for example the withdrawal of troops from Northern Ireland and dealing with terrorists on the run—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker: Order. We must be fair to the hon. Gentleman. I ask hon. Members not to hold conversations in the Chamber. Perhaps they could do that outside.

Mr. Lidington: Does the Secretary of State agree that issues such as the withdrawal of troops and dealing with terrorists on the run depend not only on decommissioning but on the clear cessation of all paramilitary activity and the effective end of the IRA as an active military organisation? Will he make it clear that the Government will not move on those normalisation issues without that clear end of paramilitary organisation and activity?

Mr. Murphy: That lies at the heart of the joint declaration, in paragraph 13. The Prime Minister has said that the acts of completion, as we have termed them, to which the hon. Gentleman referred will not happen unless there is an end to paramilitary activity and to the other issues that the hon. Gentleman mentioned. I hope that those issues will be addressed in the current negotiations, so that we can move into the other areas that the hon. Gentleman described. We cannot do so, however, unless there are acts of completion on those points.

Mr. Lidington: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that reply. I welcome today's news that he is soon to meet representatives of the Ulster Political Research Group. Does he agree that it would build community confidence hugely if the loyalist paramilitaries decommissioned their arms, ended their paramilitary activity and renounced the vicious criminality which terrorises too many people in the loyalist communities? Would that not also open the way for the jobs and investment that the people desperately want to come into those communities?

Mr. Murphy: I could not agree more with the hon. Gentleman. It is vital that, as well as tackling republican paramilitary activity, we tackle such activity among the loyalists. As he rightly says, I hope to meet the UPRG, which represents loyalism of a certain type, next week.
 
27 Oct 2004 : Column 1422
 
I shall also meet David Ervine of the Progressive Unionist party. The message is that we welcome political loyalism as a political force in Northern Ireland, but anything that involves criminality or paramilitary activity must be condemned very robustly, as the hon. Gentleman rightly said.

---