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Mr. Tyler rose—

Caroline Flint: I am sorry, but I will not give way.

My hon. Friend the Member for Islington, North (Jeremy Corbyn) asked about police permission. Police permission must be given for marches under section 2 of the Public Order Act 1986. However, it is not necessary to obtain advance police permission for assemblies.
3 Nov 2004 : Column 421

The right hon. Member for Wokingham made a point about witness protection, but as I said, I am advised that that matter is covered elsewhere. He mentioned the important question of MPs' access to the House. My right hon. Friend the Leader of the House mentioned the fact that one of our colleagues in the House was assaulted during a recent demonstration. She was simply making her way from her office in No. 1 Parliament Street to the House.

The hon. Member for Bournemouth, West (Sir John Butterfill) raised the statement of principles, which I am advised will be looked at by the right hon. Member for North-West Hampshire, who chairs the Select Committee on Standards and Privileges. Mr. Speaker will make a statement to the House, and it will be for the House to endorse it. I agree that we need to strike a balance when dealing with the many problems in Parliament square raised by hon. Members.

The hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Mr. Salmond) repeated a number of points made by my hon. Friends the Members for Hayes and Harlington and for Islington, North. He said that the message would be stopped, but as was rightly pointed out, one cannot hear or understand a message blared out by a loudhailer. People have the right to protest, and we could have a long debate about whether the protest outside has been particularly effective in changing policy—I suggest that it has not. The right hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Mr. Forth), I am afraid, accused the hon. Member for Macclesfield of helping the Executive to storm their way through the House without due process or scrutiny. I have already said that that is not the case. He also raised the issue of the statement, and I believe that I have already explained how the process will operate. He agreed with other hon. Members that we must do something about certain types of demonstration that have come to the fore in recent times.

The hon. Member for New Forest, East (Dr. Lewis) suggested that there was a split in the New forest.

Dr. Julian Lewis: For the first time ever.

Caroline Flint: Surely not the last. The hon. Gentleman shared his interesting experiences of demonstrating—

It being three hours after the commencement of proceedings on the motion, Madam Deputy Speaker put    forthwith the Question, pursuant to Order [2 November].

Question put:—

The House divided: Ayes 130, Noes 75.

Division No. 309
[7:17 pm


Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, Bob (Cov'try NE)
Allen, Graham
Amess, David
Anderson, Janet (Rossendale & Darwen)
Arbuthnot, rh James
Armstrong, rh Ms Hilary
Atkins, Charlotte
Bailey, Adrian
Baldry, Tony
Barnes, Harry
Barron, rh Kevin
Battle, John
Bayley, Hugh
Beard, Nigel
Begg, Miss Anne
Benn, rh Hilary
Bercow, John
Betts, Clive
Blears, Ms Hazel
Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin)
Brady, Graham
Brennan, Kevin
Browne, Desmond
Burden, Richard
Burnett, John
Burnham, Andy
Byrne, Liam (B'ham Hodge H)
Clark, Paul (Gillingham)
Clwyd, Ann (Cynon V)
Coffey, Ms Ann
Connarty, Michael
Corston, rh Jean
Crausby, David
David, Wayne
Davidson, Ian
Davis, rh David (Haltemprice & Howden)
Dean, Mrs Janet
Dowd, Jim (Lewisham W)
Eagle, Angela (Wallasey)
Eagle, Maria (L'pool Garston)
Evans, Nigel
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Fitzsimons, Mrs Lorna
Flight, Howard
Flint, Caroline
Gapes, Mike (Ilford S)
George, rh Bruce (Walsall S)
Green, Damian (Ashford)
Grieve, Dominic
Griffiths, Jane (Reading E)
Hain, rh Peter
Hall, Mike (Weaver Vale)
Hamilton, Fabian (Leeds NE)
Heald, Oliver
Hendrick, Mark
Hoban, Mark (Fareham)
Hoyle, Lindsay
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Humble, Mrs Joan
Hutton, rh John
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Jack, rh Michael
Jones, Kevan (N Durham)
Jones, Lynne (Selly Oak)
Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S)
Keeble, Ms Sally
Key, Robert (Salisbury)
Kidney, David
Knight, rh Greg (E Yorkshire)
Lait, Mrs Jacqui
Levitt, Tom (High Peak)
Lewis, Dr. Julian (New Forest E)
Liddell-Grainger, Ian
Linton, Martin
Lloyd, Tony (Manchester C)
McAvoy, Thomas
McFall, rh John
Mactaggart, Fiona
McWalter, Tony
McWilliam, John
Mann, John (Bassetlaw)
Mawhinney, rh Sir Brian
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Miller, Andrew
Moffatt, Laura
Moss, Malcolm
Murphy, Jim (Eastwood)
Murrison, Dr. Andrew
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
O'Brien, Stephen (Eddisbury)
Olner, Bill
Pike, Peter (Burnley)
Plaskitt, James
Pope, Greg (Hyndburn)
Pound, Stephen
Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E)
Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)
Quinn, Lawrie
Rapson, Syd (Portsmouth N)
Robathan, Andrew
Rosindell, Andrew
Roy, Frank (Motherwell)
Ruane, Chris
Salter, Martin
Simpson, Keith (M-Norfolk)
Smith, Jacqui (Redditch)
Smith, John (Glamorgan)
Smith, Sir Robert (W Ab'd'ns & Kincardine)
Spellar, rh John
Stewart, Ian (Eccles)
Taylor, Dari (Stockton S)
Taylor, David (NW Leics)
Tipping, Paddy
Tyrie, Andrew
Vaz, Keith (Leicester E)
Walter, Robert
Watson, Tom
White, Brian
Wiggin, Bill
Williams, Betty (Conwy)
Winterton, Ann (Congleton)
Winterton, Sir Nicholas (Macclesfield)
Woolas, Phil
Wright, David (Telford)
Wyatt, Derek
Yeo, Tim (S Suffolk)
Young, rh Sir George

Tellers for the Ayes:

Margaret Moran and
Vernon Coaker


Allan, Richard
Amess, David
Brooke, Mrs Annette L.
Bruce, Malcolm
Burnside, David
Calton, Mrs Patsy
Campbell, Gregory (E Lond'y)
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies (NE Fife)
Chidgey, David
Clapham, Michael
Corbyn, Jeremy
Cotter, Brian
Cruddas, Jon
Cunningham, Jim (Coventry S)
Davey, Edward (Kingston)
Dodds, Nigel
Donaldson, Jeffrey M.
Drew, David (Stroud)
Duncan, Peter (Galloway)
Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth
Ewing, Annabelle
Foster, Don (Bath)
George, Andrew (St. Ives)
Gidley, Sandra
Gray, James (N Wilts)
Green, Matthew (Ludlow)
Harvey, Nick
Heath, David
Hermon, Lady
Hoey, Kate (Vauxhall)
Holmes, Paul
Howarth, Gerald (Aldershot)
Jenkins, Brian
Keetch, Paul
Kirkwood, Sir Archy
Laing, Mrs Eleanor
Lamb, Norman
Lepper, David
Lilley, rh Peter
Loughton, Tim
Luke, Iain (Dundee E)
McDonnell, John
McIntosh, Miss Anne
Mackinlay, Andrew
Mahon, Mrs Alice
Mitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby)
Moore, Michael
Pugh, Dr. John
Redwood, rh John
Reid, Alan (Argyll & Bute)
Rendel, David
Robathan, Andrew
Robertson, Angus (Moray)
Robertson, Laurence (Tewk'b'ry)
Russell, Bob (Colchester)
Salmond, Alex
Sanders, Adrian
Simpson, Alan (Nottingham S)
Skinner, Dennis
Smyth, Rev. Martin (Belfast S)
Spink, Bob (Castle Point)
Stunell, Andrew
Swayne, Desmond
Syms, Robert
Taylor, John (Solihull)
Taylor, Dr. Richard (Wyre F)
Teather, Sarah
Thurso, John
Tonge, Dr. Jenny
Tyler, Paul (N Cornwall)
Weir, Michael
Williams, Hywel (Caernarfon)
Williams, Roger (Brecon)
Wishart, Pete
Younger-Ross, Richard

Tellers for the Noes:

Mr. Eric Forth and
Lembit Öpik

Question accordingly agreed to.

3 Nov 2004 : Column 423


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