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Mr. Speaker: If the hon. Gentleman puts a manuscript amendment to me, I shall consider it.

Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I have two matters to raise. First, I should be grateful if you asked the Minister in charge of the Hunting Bill to explain how the commitment that he has repeatedly given at the Dispatch Box, and therefore in the House, that Labour Members of Parliament have a free vote is compatible with the activity of Government Whips trying to get Labour Members to vote for a specific amendment?
 
18 Nov 2004 : Column 1472
 

Secondly, on a point of order directly for you, last night, when at a high level assurances were given to right hon. and hon. Labour Members—[Hon. Members: "Oh!"] Hon. Members should contain themselves: I am asking the Speaker to clarify procedure. Given that we are now in a position other than the one set out in the assurances given last night to right hon. and hon. Labour Members regarding the Government's view on the implementation date, and given that there are two amendments dealing with the implementation date, one tabled by the Minister for Rural Affairs and Local Environmental Quality and the other by the hon. Member for The Wrekin (Peter Bradley), I seek your guidance on whether, if either amendment is carried, it will affect the integrity of the Bill in relation to the invocation of the Parliament Act?

Mr. Speaker: On the second point, the House makes decisions; I am then guided by the Parliament Act in working out how to proceed from there. As for Whips' activities, Whips are always active and hon. Members know how to handle them.

The Minister for Rural Affairs and Local Environmental Quality (Alun Michael): Further to the first part of the point of order raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman), Mr. Speaker. I thought that all my right hon. and hon. Friends were aware of this fact, but let me make it absolutely clear: for Labour Members this is a free vote.

Mr. Peter Pike (Burnley) (Lab): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I have been listening to one or two people sitting round me in the House, and it is clear that everyone has a different interpretation of what is happening. We recognise that we are in an unusual position, and we are depending on you to guide us to ensure that at the end of the day, this Hunting Bill is carried. [Interruption.] That is the will of the House. People in this Chamber believe that there is a rat that smells, and—

Mr. Speaker: Order.
 
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18 Nov 2004 : Column 1473
 

Hunting Bill (Procedure) (No. 3)

12.40 pm

The Minister for Rural Affairs and Local Environmental Quality (Alun Michael): I beg to move the Hunting Bill (Procedure) (No. 3) motion, standing in my name and that of the Leader of the House. It might assist the House if I read out the terms of the motion, so that they are clear to all Members. The—

Mr. Peter Luff (Mid-Worcestershire) (Con) rose—

Mr. Speaker: I have taken a point of order from the hon. Gentleman. I hope that this is a different one.

Mr. Luff: On a completely different point of order, Mr. Speaker. It would be helpful if we knew for how long this debate can continue.

Mr. Speaker: The motion is not debatable. The Question will be put forthwith.

Alun Michael: The hon. Member for Mid-Worcestershire (Mr. Luff), through his point of order, makes it clear why it will assist the House if I read out—

Lembit Öpik (Montgomeryshire) (LD) rose—

Mr. Speaker: I hope that the hon. Gentleman is rising to make different a point of order.

Lembit Öpik: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. On the basis of what you have just said, I am surely correct in assuming that it would not be appropriate for the Minister to participate in such a debate, given that the Question has to be put immediately.

Alun Michael rose—

Mr. Speaker: The Minister should confine himself to reading the motion.

Alun Michael: I am grateful to you, Mr. Speaker. The motion states:

That the Orders of 15th September and 16th November shall be supplemented as follows:

1. At this day's sitting proceedings on consideration of any Lords message relating to the Hunting Bill shall be brought to a conclusion (unless already concluded) one hour after commencement.

2. For the purpose of bringing proceedings to a conclusion in accordance with paragraph 1 the Speaker shall put the following questions forthwith (and no others)-

(1) any question which has been proposed from the Chair and has not yet been decided, and

(2) the question on any motion moved by a Minister of the Crown.

3.

Paragraphs 3 to 5 of the Order of 16th November shall apply.

Mr. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Cotswold) (Con): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The—
 
18 Nov 2004 : Column 1474
 

Mr. Speaker: Order. I am putting the Question.

The House proceeded to a Division.

Mr. Patrick McLoughlin (West Derbyshire) (Con): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. This Division seems to have gone on for 17 minutes. I think that there is an argument in the Government Lobby. Can it be investigated?

Mr. Speaker: Order. I ask the Serjeant at Arms to find out what is happening.

The House having divided: Ayes 271, Noes 136.

Division No. 337 [12:44 pm


AYES

Adams, Irene (Paisley N)
Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, Bob (Cov'try NE)
Allan, Richard
Allen, Graham
Anderson, rh Donald (Swansea E)
Anderson, Janet (Rossendale & Darwen)
Armstrong, rh Ms Hilary
Atkins, Charlotte
Bailey, Adrian
Baird, Vera
Banks, Tony
Barrett, John
Barron, rh Kevin
Battle, rh John
Bayley, Hugh
Beard, Nigel
Begg, Miss Anne
Bell, Sir Stuart
Blizzard, Bob
Boateng, rh Paul
Bradley, rh Keith (Withington)
Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin)
Breed, Colin
Brennan, Kevin
Brooke, Mrs Annette L.
Brown, Russell (Dumfries)
Bryant, Chris
Burgon, Colin
Burnham, Andy
Cable, Dr. Vincent
Caborn, rh Richard
Cairns, David
Calton, Mrs Patsy
Campbell, Alan (Tynemouth)
Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge)
Casale, Roger
Caton, Martin
Cawsey, Ian (Brigg)
Challen, Colin
Clapham, Michael
Clark, Mrs Helen (Peterborough)
Clark, Dr. Lynda (Edinburgh Pentlands)
Clark, Paul (Gillingham)
Clarke, rh Tom (Coatbridge & Chryston)
Clarke, Tony (Northampton S)
Clelland, David
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ms Ann
Cooper, Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Cotter, Brian
Cox, Tom (Tooting)
Cranston, Ross
Crausby, David
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, John (Hornchurch)
Cunningham, Jim (Coventry S)
Cunningham, Tony (Workington)
Curtis-Thomas, Mrs Claire
Darling, rh Alistair
Davey, Valerie (Bristol W)
David, Wayne
Davidson, Ian
Davies, rh Denzil (Llanelli)
Dawson, Hilton
Dean, Mrs Janet
Denham, rh John
Dhanda, Parmjit
Dismore, Andrew
Dobson, rh Frank
Doran, Frank
Dowd, Jim (Lewisham W)
Drew, David (Stroud)
Drown, Ms Julia
Eagle, Angela (Wallasey)
Eagle, Maria (L'pool Garston)
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Ennis, Jeff (Barnsley E)
Etherington, Bill
Farrelly, Paul
Field, rh Frank (Birkenhead)
Fitzsimons, Mrs Lorna
Flynn, Paul (Newport W)
Foster, rh Derek
Foster, Michael (Worcester)
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings & Rye)
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gapes, Mike (Ilford S)
Gidley, Sandra
Gill, Parmjit Singh
Gilroy, Linda
Goggins, Paul
Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)
Grogan, John
Hain, rh Peter
Hall, Mike (Weaver Vale)
Hall, Patrick (Bedford)
Hamilton, David (Midlothian)
Hancock, Mike
Hanson, David
Harris, Dr. Evan (Oxford W & Abingdon)
Havard, Dai (Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney)
Henderson, Doug (Newcastle N)
Henderson, Ivan (Harwich)
Hendrick, Mark
Hepburn, Stephen
Heppell, John
Hesford, Stephen
Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia
Heyes, David
Hodge, Margaret
Holmes, Paul
Hood, Jimmy (Clydesdale)
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Alan (Newport E)
Howarth, George (Knowsley N & Sefton E)
Howells, Dr. Kim
Hughes, Beverley (Stretford & Urmston)
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Hurst, Alan (Braintree)
Jackson, Glenda (Hampstead & Highgate)
Jackson, Helen (Hillsborough)
Jamieson, David
Jenkins, Brian
Johnson, Miss Melanie (Welwyn Hatfield)
Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S)
Joyce, Eric (Falkirk W)
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keen, Alan (Feltham)
Keen, Ann (Brentford)
Kelly, Ruth (Bolton W)
Kennedy, rh Charles (Ross Skye & Inverness)
Kennedy, Jane (Wavertree)
Khabra, Piara S.
Kidney, David
Kilfoyle, Peter
King, Andy (Rugby)
Knight, Jim (S Dorset)
Laxton, Bob (Derby N)
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Leslie, Christopher
Levitt, Tom (High Peak)
Lewis, Terry (Worsley)
Linton, Martin
Love, Andrew
Luke, Iain (Dundee E)
McAvoy, Thomas
McCabe, Stephen
McCafferty, Chris
McDonagh, Siobhain
MacDonald, Calum
McDonnell, John
McFall, rh John
McGuire, Mrs Anne
McIsaac, Shona
McKechin, Ann
McKenna, Rosemary
Mackinlay, Andrew
McNulty, Tony
McWalter, Tony
McWilliam, John
Mahmood, Khalid
Mahon, Mrs Alice
Marris, Rob (Wolverh'ton SW)
Marsden, Gordon (Blackpool S)
Marshall, David (Glasgow Shettleston)
Martlew, Eric
Meale, Alan (Mansfield)
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Miller, Andrew
Moran, Margaret
Morgan, Julie
Morley, Elliot
Mudie, George
Mullin, Chris
Munn, Ms Meg
Murphy, Jim (Eastwood)
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
Norris, Dan (Wansdyke)
O'Hara, Edward
Olner, Bill
Organ, Diana
Osborne, Sandra (Ayr)
Palmer, Dr. Nick
Perham, Linda
Picking, Anne
Pickthall, Colin
Pike, Peter (Burnley)
Plaskitt, James
Pollard, Kerry
Pond, Chris (Gravesham)
Pope, Greg (Hyndburn)
Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E)
Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)
Prosser, Gwyn
Pugh, Dr. John
Purchase, Ken
Purnell, James
Quin, rh Joyce
Quinn, Lawrie
Rapson, Syd (Portsmouth N)
Reed, Andy (Loughborough)
Roche, Mrs Barbara
Rooney, Terry
Ross, Ernie (Dundee W)
Roy, Frank (Motherwell)
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, Joan
Russell, Bob (Colchester)
Sarwar, Mohammad
Savidge, Malcolm
Sawford, Phil
Sedgemore, Brian
Shaw, Jonathan
Sheridan, Jim
Shipley, Ms Debra
Short, rh Clare
Simon, Siôn (B'ham Erdington)
Singh, Marsha
Skinner, Dennis
Smith, rh Andrew (Oxford E)
Smith, Angela (Basildon)
Smith, John (Glamorgan)
Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent)
Soley, Clive
Spellar, rh John
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Steinberg, Gerry
Stinchcombe, Paul
Stoate, Dr. Howard
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Stunell, Andrew
Sutcliffe, Gerry
Tami, Mark (Alyn)
Taylor, rh Ann (Dewsbury)
Taylor, David (NW Leics)
Taylor, Matthew (Truro)
Teather, Sarah
Tipping, Paddy
Todd, Mark (S Derbyshire)
Touhig, Don (Islwyn)
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Dennis (Wolverh'ton SE)
Turner, Dr. Desmond (Brighton Kemptown)
Turner, Neil (Wigan)
Twigg, Derek (Halton)
Twigg, Stephen (Enfield)
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Walley, Ms Joan
Ward, Claire
Wareing, Robert N.
Watts, David
White, Brian
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Wicks, Malcolm
Williams, rh Alan (Swansea W)
Wills, Michael
Winnick, David
Winterton, Ms Rosie (Doncaster C)
Wood, Mike (Batley)
Woolas, Phil
Worthington, Tony
Wright, Anthony D. (Gt Yarmouth)
Wright, David (Telford)
Wright, Iain (Hartlepool)
Wright, Tony (Cannock)

Tellers for the Ayes:

Joan Ryan and
Mr. Tom Watson


NOES

Arbuthnot, rh James
Bacon, Richard
Baker, Norman
Baldry, Tony
Barker, Gregory
Beggs, Roy (E Antrim)
Beith, rh A. J.
Bellingham, Henry
Bercow, John
Blunt, Crispin
Boswell, Tim
Bottomley, Peter (Worthing W)
Brady, Graham
Browning, Mrs Angela
Bruce, Malcolm
Burns, Simon
Burnside, David
Burt, Alistair
Cameron, David
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies (NE Fife)
Cash, William
Chapman, Sir Sydney (Chipping Barnet)
Chope, Christopher
Clappison, James
Clarke, rh Kenneth (Rushcliffe)
Collins, Tim
Conway, Derek
Cormack, Sir Patrick
Curry, rh David
Davies, Quentin (Grantham & Stamford)
Djanogly, Jonathan
Dodds, Nigel
Donaldson, Jeffrey M.
Dorrell, rh Stephen
Doughty, Sue
Duncan, Alan (Rutland)
Duncan Smith, rh Iain
Fabricant, Michael
Fisher, Mark
Flook, Adrian
Forth, rh Eric
Foster, Don (Bath)
Francois, Mark
Gibb, Nick (Bognor Regis)
Gillan, Mrs Cheryl
Goodman, Paul
Gray, James (N Wilts)
Grayling, Chris
Green, Damian (Ashford)
Green, Matthew (Ludlow)
Grieve, Dominic
Gummer, rh John
Hague, rh William
Harvey, Nick
Hawkins, Nick
Hayes, John (S Holland)
Heald, Oliver
Heath, David
Heathcoat-Amory, rh David
Hendry, Charles
Hermon, Lady
Hoey, Kate (Vauxhall)
Hogg, rh Douglas
Horam, John (Orpington)
Jackson, Robert (Wantage)
Jenkin, Bernard
Key, Robert (Salisbury)
Kirkwood, Sir Archy
Laing, Mrs Eleanor
Lait, Mrs Jacqui
Lamb, Norman
Laws, David (Yeovil)
Leigh, Edward
Letwin, rh Oliver
Liddell-Grainger, Ian
Lidington, David
Lilley, rh Peter
Llwyd, Elfyn
Luff, Peter (M-Worcs)
McIntosh, Miss Anne
Mackay, rh Andrew
Maclean, rh David
McLoughlin, Patrick
Malins, Humfrey
Maples, John
Mates, Michael
May, Mrs Theresa
Mercer, Patrick
Moore, Michael
Moss, Malcolm
Murrison, Dr. Andrew
O'Brien, Stephen (Eddisbury)
Öpik, Lembit
Paice, James
Paisley, Rev. Ian
Paterson, Owen
Pickles, Eric
Price, Adam (E Carmarthen & Dinefwr)
Prisk, Mark (Hertford)
Redwood, rh John
Rendel, David
Robertson, Hugh (Faversham & M-Kent)
Ruffley, David
Sanders, Adrian
Selous, Andrew
Sheerman, Barry
Shephard, rh Mrs Gillian
Shepherd, Richard
Simmonds, Mark
Smith, Sir Robert (W Ab'd'ns & Kincardine)
Spicer, Sir Michael
Spink, Bob (Castle Point)
Steen, Anthony
Streeter, Gary
Swire, Hugo (E Devon)
Syms, Robert
Tapsell, Sir Peter
Taylor, Ian (Esher)
Taylor, Dr. Richard (Wyre F)
Taylor, Sir Teddy
Thomas, Simon (Ceredigion)
Thurso, John
Tredinnick, David
Trend, Michael
Turner, Andrew (Isle of Wight)
Tyler, Paul (N Cornwall)
Tyrie, Andrew
Watkinson, Angela
Webb, Steve (Northavon)
Whittingdale, John
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, David
Williams, Roger (Brecon)
Winterton, Ann (Congleton)
Young, rh Sir George
Younger-Ross, Richard

Tellers for the Noes:

Mr. David Wilshire and
Mr. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown


Question accordingly agreed to.

 
18 Nov 2004 : Column 1477
 

Mr. Speaker: The Clerk has informed me that a number of manuscript amendments have been tabled and, of course, I have promised hon. Members that I will give them consideration. In view of the number of manuscript amendments, I am going to suspend the House until 1.40 pm.

1.2 pm

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